Said my piece, carry on if you must.

[wodin]

I don't understand how you've come to those conclusions?

I bet Matrix has financially benefited from their games being on Steam. Money that goes into future wargames.

Not sure how Steam effects a developers budget in a negative way or time spent on project??? I know a few developers and none of them have accused Steam of taking sources of revenue or restricting game development time. I'm truly interested in hearing about this sort of thing from developers who have been affected in this way.

As for being dumb?? Don't understand that either. To me it's a modern version of the high street computer game shop but with way more choice and no need to leave the house!

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

That's pretty typical, in that those that use something will tend to like it, eh? But I don't care if crack users like crack.

All I care about is the fact that our game developers need time, and lots of it, to work on our games. Steam takes away from that. That makes our community worse for the sake of lazy file managers and cheap bundles of mostly crap games. It's the dumbest ass thing I've ever seen.

[wodin]

What I meant was a lot of those who hate it have never actually used it cos they hate it..it seems to me anyway. I have heard of haters who end up using it and realise it wasn't that bad.

I'm not some acolyte for Steam. I just think people see a problem they don't need to see. Problems mean stress, stress not good. Enough issues in life as it is, why needlessly add to them. Steam is here to stay, like everything you get used to it and then don't even think about it anymore, just is. Few things would stop me buying a game I know I will enjoy, steam certainly isn't one of them

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

That's pretty typical, in that those that use something will tend to like it, eh? But I don't care if crack users like crack.

All I care about is the fact that our game developers need time, and lots of it, to work on our games. Steam takes away from that. That makes our community worse for the sake of lazy file managers and cheap bundles of mostly crap games. It's the dumbest ass thing I've ever seen.

[sPzAbt653]

Of course the developers won't say a word against it, it appears to make them more money. There is no way of proving that if there was no steam that folks would go ahead and buy games anyway, but I tend to think they would. But don't focus on developer's making money, that is not our part of this equation. The developer's spend more time catering to steam based on sales thru that venue. If the amount of sales did not warrant the effort, then the effort would be returned to its rightful place - game development. Steam does nothing but advertise and collect money for itself.

Of course steam is here to stay, I've always said that it has a place, but that place is not here. Steam has been around a long time and has an estimated 90 million users, so if some how 15,000 of them from here decide not to use it, steam could care less.

[sPzAbt653]

I have heard of haters who end up using it and realise it wasn't that bad.

I'll say it again, I'm not a hater, I'm reporting what my investigation turned up, and I don't believe that most users understand what is going on. I'm not fighting the developers, not Matrix, not steam. I'm fighting uninformed users that are supporting something that gives them little benefit while taking away from the quality of their games.

In the past three months since my investigation and when I started speaking up against steam, there have been two reasons that users have given for using steam. One reason is cheap game bundles, and I think we can all agree that is not worth it. It's Columbia House or Publishers Clearing House.

The other is file management. There is part of me that wants to say this is 2020 so manage your own files, but then some get offended. But think of it this way - steam doesn't manage any files, our developers have to make versions of their games that do that within the steam framework. So do you want developers working on steam versions, or working on our games? It's easy to figure that out.

I'll also mention that steam creates a lot of problems for us here, the threads are full of issues. We don't need that. for my part, when I see people backing it up as if it were something good, I'm going to say something, because we really don't deserve it at all.

[wodin]

Well I've heard complaints about our beloved Slitherine taking a large share of the profit compared to developer. Publishers want money, it's a business. Be it Steam or Slitherine some will feel it's unfair regarding share of income.

Still don't understand your "but not here" view. How can the publicity being on Steam be a bad thing for wargaming? I know how difficult getting publicity is, it's like gold dust, so being on Steam I think is fantastic. I'd love my website to suddenly get that sort of exposure! Surely the more places a game appears the bigger the customer base and it positive side effects like drawing attention to the wargame hobby? Youd be surprised by how many gamers out there have no idea you can buy this sort of game and some may even become new wargamers. New blood esp youngsters are needed.

I use Steam as that's where the games are sold. If we are talking specifically about Matrix games, well if it's on Steam and installed and I'm on Steam at the time I use Steam version. In fact if game has Steam version I install that one as it's just easier.

Another good think about Steam is auto updates games. Sometimes I have a fair few in the queue, would be a pain having to check for these updates first. Again time saving.

As for problems, I've used Steam for years and can honestly say only once has there been a Steam specific version issue, That was on release and fixed. Just one.

I'm interested to know how much time and money is spent extra to work a game on Steam. I'd also like to know how much time and money extra for a game to work for Slitherine. You are saying interesting things but can you show the stats and figures that you've discovered in your research to draw your conclusions? A big commitment to run such an investigation and having done so then you need to tell people what you've discovered, enlighten them\us. This sort of thing people want to hear about. love abit of investigative journalism.

Thanks

[MrsWargamer]

Hey guys, take the Steam debate to another thread please

I just wanted to say thanks to our hosts.

[wodin]

Thanks have been said😁

Conversations evolve.

Considering you started talking about Steam in this thread seems a little hypocritical Lesly.

Though obviously if there is more to say regarding op then I apologise, please carry on.

No one owns a thread no matter who started it, except Matrix themselves😉 There is asking and there is telling, I've never liked being told. Now if you'd have said "listen not an issue but maybe open a new thread about Steam as others may want to join in" that would have been far cooler.

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Hey guys, take the Steam debate to another thread please

I just wanted to say thanks to our hosts.

[MrsWargamer]

Geese, I said please.

Whatever.

[IslandInland]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Geese, I said please.

Whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzdeQbruayk


I've said my piece.

[IslandInland]

Geese-us Christ, I find it incredible that what I assume must be primarily PC gamers are still banging on about how they don't like Steam 16 years after it's inception.

Chillax because the next big thing is Epic Games so in a decade and a half y'all can bang on about how you don't like that either.

https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/

[:D]

[wodin]

I apologise!


I've had two days now of having to deal with people who have used\annoyed me, it takes it out of you carving all them bones etc, only just got pot on boil!!😉

Seriously I'm sorry was no need for mini snarl.

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Geese, I said please.

Whatever.

[JWW]

I like the Steam platform, but I despise the Steam forums. I look through them for info on games I play, but I get so tired of toxic nature of the forums. Matrix/Slitherine/AGEOD games I buy here and get a Steam key when I can.

[RangerJoe]

So you said please. So what? MrsWargamer, you brought up your criticism of Steam. Then other people commented on Steam. Then you don't like that. If you did not want comments about Steam, you should not have initiated it.

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So you said please. So what? MrsWargamer, you brought up your criticism of Steam. Then other people commented on Steam. Then you don't like that. If you did not want comments about Steam, you should not have initiated it.

This is a fine example of a belligerent attitude. But this is Matrix Games, and my thread was to congratulate them on their forums. It's their place, not mine. I doubt you'd be welcome in my living room. The difference between Wodin and yourself is Wodin isn't rude.

[RangerJoe]

Why would I even want to be in your living room?

You are the rude one. When someone insulted me in another thread, I called that person on it. You backed that individual and then insulted me with wild speculation with no evidence to back it up. Respect is returned, insults are returned.

[bayonetbrant]

[8|]

[MrRoadrunner]

Two kids on the playground working out their differences?

RR

[IslandInland]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So you said please. So what? MrsWargamer, you brought up your criticism of Steam. Then other people commented on Steam. Then you don't like that. If you did not want comments about Steam, you should not have initiated it.

This is a fine example of a belligerent attitude. But this is Matrix Games, and my thread was to congratulate them on their forums. It's their place, not mine. I doubt you'd be welcome in my living room. The difference between Wodin and yourself is Wodin isn't rude.

[:D]

Matrix don't need congratulating on their forum. They maybe need congratulating for the exemplary support in terms of patches they give to their wargames for years after their release. The forum is what it is. It's an extension of their core business which is the development, production and sale of wargames.

No offence but you come across as almost a parody of a fangirl (Mrs Wargamer?) sometimes.

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: IslandInland

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So you said please. So what? MrsWargamer, you brought up your criticism of Steam. Then other people commented on Steam. Then you don't like that. If you did not want comments about Steam, you should not have initiated it.

This is a fine example of a belligerent attitude. But this is Matrix Games, and my thread was to congratulate them on their forums. It's their place, not mine. I doubt you'd be welcome in my living room. The difference between Wodin and yourself is Wodin isn't rude.

[:D]

Matrix don't need congratulating on their forum. They maybe need congratulating for the exemplary support in terms of patches they give to their wargames for years after their release. The forum is what it is. It's an extension of their core business which is the development, production and sale of wargames.

No offence but you come across as almost a parody of a fangirl (Mrs Wargamer?) sometimes.

Hmm, I am a girl, I'm getting married in October actually (second marriage though), fangirl, maybe. My join date isn't accurate though. I've been here since early 2000. I CAN say I helped build the place actually.

But the place has evolved over the years.

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I want to thank the site for NOT permitting religion and political content on site, anywhere on site.

That is a religious statement in itself.