Kursk WW2: Why Russia is still fighting world's biggest tank battle

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

You make me laugh with your coldwaresque ridiculous western propaganda.

For all I care, Soviet "the help was only the 4% of the total, almost irrelevant" or Western "we saved their a**es" are a crock of sh*t. I have no time for this and other sophistries.

I cited an example that should make you think. The truck theory does NOT describe what happened in '41. And the theories that cannot describe the real world tend to be weak... But carry on with your cold war narratives [:D]

warspite1

Your latest response is to yourself but you refer to 'your' and so as we've been exchanging posts and no one else has directly been answering your posts this morning (Ranger Joe's post 95 was not in anyway referring to the Soviets), your post is clearly in response to my last response to you. Very annoying debating style (and I know exactly why you've done it) but par for the course I'm afraid.

Firstly you state "You make me laugh with your coldwaresque ridiculous western propaganda".

As usual, if you are going to comment critically upon someone's posts please have the good grace, the common courtesy, to actually read what they've said. Two comments made by me as recently as post 81 - in addition to what I've said in the past in support of the sacrifice of the Soviet people:

So those that limit Allied involvement in the Soviet victory are as misguided as those who downplay the Soviet sacrifice. It's all political nonsense. It's just a shame it's so difficult to get a balanced view.

As much as some may not want to admit it (for whatever political or other purpose), the US, the Commonwealth and the Soviets needed each other.

Two posts later I said

Well I for one agree wholeheartedly. To suggest that that without the invasion of Sicily (and the withdrawal of German forces in the east) the Germans would have broken through during Citadel is, from what I've read, fanciful.

So you think what I've written there is simply spouting Cold War bias???? [8|][8|]

You brought in Guatemala and Peru - and the vacuousness of that comment was called out. You knew that to be the case so simply didn't respond - but posted some nonsense about gold-laden destroyers to try and hide your embarrassment and deflect from your mistake.

That you simply refuse to believe the Western Allied help was crucial simply confirms your status as a poster child for those incapable of wanting to understand what happened in WWII. Stalin himself said they couldn't have won without Allied aid - but of course you will simply say Kruschev made that up. Well the testimony of Kruschev is a lot more believable than your distorted version of events.

So I'm still waiting, no more deflecting.... Explain the Guatemala/Peru/USA situation and how it is the same as USSR/USA.

+1

[TulliusDetritus]

"On their own", they already did the hardest part: with the big prize, the annihilation of a whole German Army [:D]

A trascendental event that the nazis inmediately understood.

That was the supreme effort. And they were on their own. This was true in 1943, in 2019 and in the tenth millenium. Future revisionist historians will need to work harder. I don't think Hollywood will be around to sell its peculiar history.

People have to be utterly blind if they think they would not have made it to Berlin after the 6 armee disaster.

Keep dreaming.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"On their own", they already did the hardest part: with the big prize, the annihilation of a whole German Army [:D]

A trascendental event that the nazis inmediately understood.

That was the supreme effort. And they were on their own. This was true in 1943, in 2019 and in the tenth millenium. Future revisionist historians will need to work harder. I don't think Hollywood will be around to sell its peculiar history.

People have to be utterly blind if they think they would not have made it to Berlin after the 6 armee disaster.

Keep dreaming.

If you don't want to continue this discussion, you should say so, instead of making non-sequitur replies.

[TulliusDetritus]

What historian affirms the aid saved them?

A respected professional like Glantz certainly not [:D]

And yet, lots of bold people affirm it.

So pay attention.

And more to the point: I never read before Kursk was only possible because of this aid. A wild statement from your part.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"On their own", they already did the hardest part: with the big prize, the annihilation of a whole German Army [:D]

How did the Soviets build their industry and industrial technology from 1920s to 1940? How did the Soviets improve the efficiency of the railroads and railroad technology from 1920s to 1940? Where did the Soviets get their military technology from? You seem to have studied all of this. Surely you didn't get it all from the nationalistic drivel seen on the internet today. You have a brain of your own right?

[RangerJoe]

You have a brain of your own, right?
comma added for clarity . . .

Are you sure of that? Some people just spout what other people tell them without thinking of what they are stating.

[TulliusDetritus]

Indeed, the efficient Middle West farmers were not possible without the mighty Neolithic farmers.

So it's them + Guatemala and Peru [:D]

Or Honduras and Chili, to make sure certain personage is happy eh.

[RangerJoe]

Or Honduras and Chili, to make sure certain personage is happy eh.

Mexican soup/stew with peppers, many times with meat, cheese, beans, tomatoes, onions, other vegetables, and sometimes noodles?

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Indeed, the efficient Middle West farmers were not possible without the mighty Neolithic farmers.

So it's them + Guatemala and Peru [:D]

Or Honduras and Chili, to make sure certain personage is happy eh.

Ah yes. Spoken like a true intellectual.

BTW, chili is one of my favorite winter foods. [:D]

[TulliusDetritus]

Well, you mentioned (I don't know why exactly) the history of capitalism. I can't see why I'm not allowed to mention the greatest revolution of all.

It's actually very simple. To prove your point you just need a) prove the trucks were vital, for both the Blitzkrieg and Soviet Deep Battle things; and b) prove the USSR was uncapable of producing them.

Lemme help you. a) is correct and b) is false.

Have a good day [:D]

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

I can't see why I'm not allowed to mention the greatest revolution of all.

Thank you for mentioning the Industrial Revolution. [&o]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Indeed, the efficient Middle West farmers were not possible without the mighty Neolithic farmers.

So it's them + Guatemala and Peru [:D]

Or Honduras and Chili, to make sure certain personage is happy eh.

warspite1

Adding a [:D] to every post says much, adding Guatemala and Peru says the rest; totally and utterly pointless as usual.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Adding a [:D] to every post says much, adding Guatemala and Peru says the rest; totally and utterly pointless as usual.

[:D]

Guatemala and Peru too.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"On their own", they already did the hardest part: with the big prize, the annihilation of a whole German Army [:D]

Where did the Soviets get their military technology from?

warspite1

Guatemala and Peru [:D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

It's actually very simple. To prove your point you just need a) prove the trucks were vital, for both the Blitzkrieg and Soviet Deep Battle things; and b) prove the USSR was uncapable of producing them.

Lemme help you. a) is correct and b) is false.

warspite1

It’s actually very simple. To prove your point you just need a) prove that the Soviets could have won without Allied aid and b) if you can, then prove the Soviets would have been in Berlin by April 1945 without it

Lemme help you. a) is false and b) is also false

[:D]

[RangerJoe]

Actually, the Industrial Revolution may not have been possible without the Agricultural Revolution freeing up many workers while feeding even more people.

[Lobster]

I actually told a lie. The French Revolution is arguably the greatest. [;)]

[RangerJoe]

True, the French Revolution led to Napoleon without whom we may not have had canned food so no Spam!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

True, the French Revolution led to Napoleon without whom we may not have had canned food so no Spam!

warspite1

Ah Napoleon. I recently watched an interesting debate about whether Napoleon should be considered 'great'. I hope this is of some interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxQ4TcTcPbI

[Capitaine]

I didn't watch your video, but I did see a rating of military leaders throughout all of history and Napoleon was in first place by quite a wide margin. No contest, really, and I would agree.