Kursk WW2: Why Russia is still fighting world's biggest tank battle

[RangerJoe]

I agree, however the debate in the video goes beyond the military aspects. I would state that he was great but also personally petty. Some of the complaints such as house arrest would be more like today's probation with an ankle GPS monitor where the person can't go beyond a certain distance from the receiver without setting off an alarm.

Just think, what he was trying for to a certain extent has come to fruition. A peaceful Europe where France is not militarily threatened by its neighbors and with trading agreements. Of course, he did not want the UK involved and except for Ireland, that will come to pass.

edited for clarity.

[Capitaine]

Whenever it comes to Napoleon, I discount *everything* said or written by the British. Their visceral hatred of the man prevents all objectivity. I don't know who did Warspite's video, or what it claims, but if it's British or "modern" I have no interest in revisiting the topic with them. I spend and have spent much of my personal reading on Napoleon and have a good feeling about what his strengths and weaknesses were. I doubt a video is going to be more informed than I am.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Whenever it comes to Napoleon, I discount *everything* said or written by the British. Their visceral hatred of the man prevents all objectivity. I don't know who did Warspite's video, or what it claims, but if it's British or "modern" I have no interest in revisiting the topic with them. I spend and have spent much of my personal reading on Napoleon and have a good feeling about what his strengths and weaknesses were. I doubt a video is going to be more informed than I am.

Do you really believe this? [&:]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Whenever it comes to Napoleon, I discount *everything* said or written by the British. Their visceral hatred of the man prevents all objectivity. I don't know who did Warspite's video, or what it claims, but if it's British or "modern" I have no interest in revisiting the topic with them. I spend and have spent much of my personal reading on Napoleon and have a good feeling about what his strengths and weaknesses were. I doubt a video is going to be more informed than I am.

warspite1

The limitation of that view is laid bare by the very video you reject the chance to watch. So through your own bias (Re your perception of 'the British' and Napoleon) you refuse to watch a video that, had you watched it, would have confirmed your view is so wrong!

One of the most well known historians of the present age argues forcefully that Napoleon should be considered great... his nationality? British....

But then you refused to listen to a Southampton University study on the sea worthiness of HMS Queen Mary vs a contemporary German battlecruiser because you couldn't believe the university boffins could be objective; as though all British speak with one voice, all Germans, all French etc.etc. So essentially the only historical view worth listening to is, for example, a German commenting on a Briton or an American commenting on a Spaniard Because a Briton or Spaniard couldn't be trusted to speak badly of their countryman/woman... whoever they may be???? Bizarre. Try getting any two Americans to have the same view of FDR or two Britons to have the same view of Cromwell for further proof that your notion needs serious revision.

[Capitaine]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Whenever it comes to Napoleon, I discount *everything* said or written by the British. Their visceral hatred of the man prevents all objectivity. I don't know who did Warspite's video, or what it claims, but if it's British or "modern" I have no interest in revisiting the topic with them. I spend and have spent much of my personal reading on Napoleon and have a good feeling about what his strengths and weaknesses were. I doubt a video is going to be more informed than I am.

warspite1

The limitation of that view is laid bare by the very video you reject the chance to watch. So through your own bias (Re your perception of 'the British' and Napoleon) you refuse to watch a video that, had you watched it, would have confirmed your view is so wrong!

One of the most well know historians of the present age argues forcefully that Napoleon should be considered great... his nationality? British....

But then you refused to listen to a Southampton University study on the sea worthiness of HMS Queen Mary vs a contemporary German battlecruiser because you couldn't believe the university boffins could be objective; as though all British speak with one voice, all Germans, all French etc.etc. So essentially the only historical view worth listening to is, for example, a German commenting on a Briton or an American commenting on a Spaniard Because a Briton or Spaniard couldn't be trusted to speak badly of their countryman/woman... whoever they may be???? Bizarre. Try getting any two Americans to have the same view of FDR or two Britons to have the same view of Cromwell for further proof that your notion needs serious revision.

Well that is some new information you've imparted there Warspite. While my observations about the British and Napoleon remain intact, as a lawyer I know of the added credibility of a "witness" who makes a statement against [his own] interest. According, if you have a British opinion on Napoleon that is not a reflexively hostile one, I will watch your video with heightened interest. Wish you'd have said that to begin with.

Anyway, there's a reason my forum name isn't "Captain" or "Hauptman" or other nation's term. *wink

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Whenever it comes to Napoleon, I discount *everything* said or written by the British. Their visceral hatred of the man prevents all objectivity. I don't know who did Warspite's video, or what it claims, but if it's British or "modern" I have no interest in revisiting the topic with them. I spend and have spent much of my personal reading on Napoleon and have a good feeling about what his strengths and weaknesses were. I doubt a video is going to be more informed than I am.

warspite1

The limitation of that view is laid bare by the very video you reject the chance to watch. So through your own bias (Re your perception of 'the British' and Napoleon) you refuse to watch a video that, had you watched it, would have confirmed your view is so wrong!

One of the most well know historians of the present age argues forcefully that Napoleon should be considered great... his nationality? British....

But then you refused to listen to a Southampton University study on the sea worthiness of HMS Queen Mary vs a contemporary German battlecruiser because you couldn't believe the university boffins could be objective; as though all British speak with one voice, all Germans, all French etc.etc. So essentially the only historical view worth listening to is, for example, a German commenting on a Briton or an American commenting on a Spaniard Because a Briton or Spaniard couldn't be trusted to speak badly of their countryman/woman... whoever they may be???? Bizarre. Try getting any two Americans to have the same view of FDR or two Britons to have the same view of Cromwell for further proof that your notion needs serious revision.

Well that is some new information you've imparted there Warspite. While my observations about the British and Napoleon remain intact, as a lawyer I know of the added credibility of a "witness" who makes a statement against [his own] interest. According, if you have a British opinion on Napoleon that is not a reflexively hostile one, I will watch your video with heightened interest. Wish you'd have said that to begin with.

Anyway, there's a reason my forum name isn't "Captain" or "Hauptman" or other nation's term. *wink

warspite1

And 57% of the audience (presumably mostly British) voted that he was indeed worthy of the epithet great.

Your views are your views and that's fine. But I would hope you can see that your actions (refusing to open up to anything 'the British' have to say on any given subject because you 'know' what they will say) simply reinforces bias because even if they behave differently to what you expect, you would never know and so the biased opinion continues as a self fulfilling prophesy.

[danlongman]

Warspite and Capitaine Credits to both of you gentlemen for engaging in some civil discussion of
a matter many find contentious. Boney was a warrior and may have been "great" but he wasn't great
in the eyes of the various monarchs and marshals he was in the habit of humiliating.

Anyway I was wondering about the petshop and if Rachel Pilson has been around. My daughter went
over to Japan on the airplane and said she was not there. I even gave her a picture so she would
know how humid Rachel would look in the hollywood mash-up.

[ncc1701e]

Napoleon won at Kursk, world's biggest horse battle in history. Period. Anyone saying the contrary is against reality. [;)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: danlongman

Anyway I was wondering about the petshop and if Rachel Pilson has been around. My daughter went
over to Japan on the airplane and said she was not there. I even gave her a picture so she would
know how humid Rachel would look in the hollywood mash-up.

soojan

danlongmanaman he BacK exciting for all! danlongmanman is friends. sad news to for danlongmanam. rachel pilsem us was taken in mystery van machin by bowler hat man he wear pink knee boots like landsers but don't tell stalin [:D] Bad for rachel if hollywood mash-up bad for boots but bowler hat man just make bad smells and pet ship closed with saw dust for kitchen units. poor! Mr wilkes close dpwm mR wilkes is my friends to much friends.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Napoleon won at Kursk, world's biggest horse battle in history. Period. Anyone saying the contrary is against reality. [;)]

warspite1

No! Napoleon won at Thirsk. The short-arse was riding the mare 'Little Corporal' in the 3:15 and came home by a nose. He did really well though as his piles were playing havoc with his concentration from the halfway mark.

You see, to suggest people from these islands are biased toward Napoleon is totally false. I am from England and yet I think Napoleon was an over-rated, short-arsed, corpulent failure. and I'm not even biased.





[;)]

[Capitaine]

I have watched the first 20 minutes or so of the video and do appreciate the first scholar's remarks about the "Greatness of Napoleon". All true. I will go back to watch the rest when I have more time but what I heard of the second gentleman's thesis was that "there was so much more Napoleon could have done, but didn't." Well, isn't that grand? To judge men on theoretical nonaccomplishments instead of what they actually did accomplish. As the first scholar said, Napoleon was defeated. Many great men are defeated at some point. But to contest whether Napoleon was "great" is a truly modern exercise that I decline to characterize politically.

[danlongman]

I am more sad to hear of Mister van Machine than anything.
It was so windy when that happened that I ate a curry.
Then the wind turned bad, very bad and my eyes had tears
so big. Where us Rachel Pilsen going to be now?
It is a summer line up tomorrow! You bet!
Cheers Warspite! I go now to look far.

[warspite1]

Do you realise danlongman, that all that nonsense was all of 5 years ago! My how time flies [:)]

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

"On their own", they already did the hardest part: with the big prize, the annihilation of a whole German Army [:D]

Where did the Soviets get their military technology from?

warspite1

Guatemala and Peru [:D]

No gentleman, it was Brazil and its peanut brittle [:D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Lobster




Where did the Soviets get their military technology from?

warspite1

Guatemala and Peru [:D]

No gentleman, it was Brazil and its peanut brittle [:D]

warspite1

[:-] There's always one. There we were having a high-brow, cerebral conversation when........

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

I can't see why I'm not allowed to mention the greatest revolution of all.

Thank you for mentioning the Industrial Revolution. [&o]

Nope. Gordon Childe's Neolithic revolution is the one I mentioned.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Guatemala and Peru [:D]

No gentleman, it was Brazil and its peanut brittle [:D]

warspite1

[:-] There's always one. There we were having a high-brow, cerebral conversation when........

Read most of it, got too weighty for my current mood, so..... there[:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Aurelian



No gentleman, it was Brazil and its peanut brittle [:D]

warspite1

[:-] There's always one. There we were having a high-brow, cerebral conversation when........

Read most of it, got too weighty for my current mood, so..... there[:)]

warspite1

Too weighty? Yes I can understand why trying to understand how Guatemala gave lend-lease aid to the USA during WWII would have had you desperate for the comparative sense that is the life and times of Mr Wilkes (and his pet shop), bowler hat man (and his bad smells) and Rachel Pilsem (and her Landser influenced pink knee-length boots). The latter at least makes sense....

[TulliusDetritus]

Your hysterical laugh says a lot about you.

So the Guatemalan and Peruvian inputs that the US needed were a big f*cking laugh eh?

While the Soviets must say thanks for all the manufactures and raw materials.

I know, who cares about these worthless untermenschen.

There's something even funnier, the hilarious fact that you
are going down as a civilisation.

Capitalism is currently migrating to the east, leaving behind ruins and impoverished working and middle classes. It's happening as we speak.

That's funny too? You're gunna love it!

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Capitalism is currently migrating to the east, leaving behind ruins and impoverished working and middle classes. It's happening as we speak.

Is this a seasonal migration? If so when will it be coming back?