WitE 2

[Catacol]

I have many years of gaming under my belt - and have recently bought WITE. Fought a few AI campaigns and have now moved to multiplayer. I have to say I am disappointed that the only way I can track my opponent's turn is via the use of F11 and Battle Sites. Without a graphical representation of the sequence of attacks, and a visual display of retreat/advance routes of units to my eye gameplay is significantly reduced both in terms of information and enjoyability. Strategic Command, while of less depth, has the edge here.

Could WITE2 provide an effective pbem replay of opponent's turns?

[vilcum]

+1 , In 2019 the game needs better enemy turn representation than a static photo-finish, would meke a lot towards leveling the learning curve

[BigDuke66]

Besides being standard in almost every other strategy game since the 90's.

[Joel Billings]

Sorry, there are no plans to add in a replay. This was ruled out in WitE1, WitW, and now WitE2 as simply too hard/time consuming to provide something useful. As it is we have plenty to do.

Recent progress has been made on several fronts, literally. We've got all the action in the theater boxes to deal with. We've been balancing and hooking up parts of the air game on the map and the theater boxes (Germans lose as much in he air in Western Europe as in the east). We've also decided to automate pilot training (this is advanced pilot training as the basic training is done already for many of the pilots.

We recently implemented the rest of the campaign victory system. Below is the graphical info for victory (not final art) at the start of the Stalingrad to Berlin scenario (starts Nov 22 1942 with the Soviet counterattack). The Axis have a High Water Mark score of 661, which is also the current score. If the Germans reach 750 on turn 8 (the next sudden victory check), they win (this isn't going to happen). When their points fall to 594 or lower, the initiative will switch to the Soviet side at which point the Soviet will have a score that grows over time. The Soviets will then have a chance for a sudden victory check every 3 months. Otherwise, they must beat the German High Water Mark score by the end of 1944 or the Germans win (if they do exceed the German HWM then the game can go into 1945 where there are some additional victory conditions). Points are scored by cities captured, bonus points for capturing cities by a certain time, recapturing cities, and event points (positive or negative) based on Theater Box requirements.

Lots still to do, but we are making progress.

[Zebtucker12]

Will there be a to the bitter end option?

[Joel Billings]

No plans to include that at the moment, but it's something that could be considered. One of the ideas of the German High Water Mark is to give a reason for the Germans to push East, and do it quickly, while giving the Soviets a reason to not run away in the early stages (or at least face a penalty if they do). If you remove the auto victory you remove some of the reasons for this, especially if you don't make the check at the end of 1944. In fact even in the bitter end scenario we'd want to make the end of 1944 check. Doesn't mean we couldn't find a way to let people continue to the end after the check, but victory might be already determined. It's very possible that this is a scenario that would be added after release. Sudden victory is not something that will be easy to achieve. We'd expect most games to make it to the Dec 1944 check.

[STEF78]

You are working on WITE 2 for more than 4 years [&o]

Any idea of a date of release? 2020? 2021?

[Joel Billings]

We expect it will come out in 2020, but there's no guarantee as we're a small group. We still have some major work to do on the air game and also the interface face-lift. We have had several health issues come up over the past year that have slowed us down. Also, one of the two programmers is part time and he's had less time to work on the game this past year. We're not happy it's taken this long, but we have been making good progress recently. We didn't expect it to take this long, but there's a lot of new things in the game (like the Theater Boxes and the event system) that have been a considerable amount of work. The flexibility of some of these systems is off the charts, but its taking time to get it all in, working and balanced. We're effectively now trying to balance the entire War in Europe, even though half of it is taking place via the TBs and the event system. Luckily we've got a great group of people working on the data and scenarios, and a handful of strong testers providing us with a lot of feedback. Gary thinks that of all his games, WitP was the most complicated to design and code, and he thinks that WitE2 is now 10x the internal complexity of WitP. Let's just say it's a challenge for all of us, but we're determined to get it done.

[Zebtucker12]

Im sure it will be worth the wait form all the great stuff we have seen.
Will there any new naval aspects of the game?

[Joel Billings]

We decided to continue to abstract the naval war as it was done in WitW. The Soviets do have a naval unit in the Black Sea that provides a limited amphibious and bombardment capability (if the unit is heavily damaged it is removed from for the rest of the war). Ports project some naval power automatically based on port size, but aircraft can take control of water hexes through naval patrol air directives. This can add to the damage or block transport and cargo ships from moving troops and supplies over water. Ports can be important, but they are limited by the number of cargo ships in the area so they provide a finite and often limited supply capability.

[rob89]

So, Gary said that the complexity of WitE2 will be 10x as for WitP.

But then, why spend 4 or 5 years in the development of a wargame in which at least 30% of the simulation will take place through abstract (and extremely complex) theater boxes?

Considering that the map of the whole of Europe already exists and the WitW's experience, database etc., it would not have been more logical to use such a long period to directly develop a full War in Europe (starting in Jun, 1941)?

regards

[bazjak]

ORIGINAL: rob89

So, Gary said that the complexity of WitE2 will be 10x as for WitP.

But then, why spend 4 or 5 years in the development of a wargame in which at least 30% of the simulation will take place through abstract (and extremely complex) theater boxes?

Considering that the map of the whole of Europe already exists and the WitW's experience, database etc., it would not have been more logical to use such a long period to directly develop a full War in Europe (starting in Jun, 1941)?

regards

From my recollection the war in Europe started in September 1939
So i think you a bit out there

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: bazjak

ORIGINAL: rob89
a long period to directly develop a full War in Europe (starting in Jun, 1941)?
regards

From my recollection the war in Europe started in September 1939
So i think you a bit out there

Tell that to Americans, whoever made War in the West etc [:D]

[rob89]

ORIGINAL: bazjak

From my recollection the war in Europe started in September 1939
So i think you a bit out there

I know very well when WW2 started!

I mentioned, for the game and its scemarios, a start in June '41 for obvious reasons, having to start from the work done for WitE and WitW and therefore having to avoid all the first phase of the war that would provide many other researches, data, events, and other years of development

regrads

[loki100]

several bits of a partial answer:

a) I'd agree that starting in June 41 is a good idea - it avoids the politics and multiple options of the 1939-41 period. After all what is the value to carefully modelling the shifting OOB/ToE if Germany has invaded Iran in 1939 or something of that ilk

But

b) the naval game does not really exist, this is fine for WiTW and WiTE but needs to be in for the period 41-43;
c) the in-game databases don't really cover the west in the period 41-43;
d) balancing such a game would be a massive task
e) the Theatre Boxes are an elegant low impact way to cover the rest of the war - remember no-one is playing the Western Allies in WiTE2;
f) balancing such a game would be a massive task
g) balancing WiTE2 is a massive task

in effect a WiE is a different project again to WiTE2

[Joel Billings]

That's right, we may have 70% of the data to handle all of WW2 in Europe (maybe 80% if from 1941), but trying to get that playable and balanced with 3 major sides would be yet another bunch of work on top of the work needed for WitE2 (not to mention the AI for the Western Allies which we don't need for WitE2).

[Bamilus]

WITE2 in 2020, WIE in 2028, WAW (WIE + WITP:AE) in 2040?

[Joel Billings]

Similar rules to WitW for naval interdiction and sea transport and freight shipment between ports, but only an amphib HQ for the Soviets in the Black Sea (and likely only for the early part of the war). Lake Ladoga also has some ice road rules to deal with the differences there between summer and winter.

[TunganNinja]

>Lake Ladoga also has some ice road rules to deal with the differences there between summer and winter.

Now this is something I'm very excited for! Lake Ladoga: home to patrol boat skirmishes, trucks (and trains!) travelling over the ice road to supply Leningrad vs using boats during summer, massive losses of trucks and material sinking to the bottom of the lake, dive bomber runs over the ice, etc. These are all things that made the Siege of Leningrad a truly dynamic and notable event in the war.

[Michael T]

Curious about combat delay. Does combat delay also use fuel in the same proportion as normal MP?