Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I really would not call them pools. They look more like puddles.

This is not an Allied game where I'll end up with 700 P-40E in the pools in August 43. I don't want that. Use them, knock down IJ pilots with them, make them useful. These are great pools. Much better than I've had all game. [;)]

[RangerJoe]

Against the computer, I like to use up all of the earlier aircraft that I can since it just helps to keep from using up all of your better aircraft so your pools are too shallow.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Against the computer, I like to use up all of the earlier aircraft that I can since it just helps to keep from using up all of your better aircraft so your pools are too shallow.

Sure. And at this point the Japanese still have to fly a lot of A6M variants, some early Oscars, and have only limited 2nd Gen fighters. The P-40E, F4F-4, P-39D, P-43, P-66, and Hurricane IIc are all good against 1st Gen and can compete with 2nd Gen in the right configurations and with good pilots. I won't be sweeping with P-40E or P-39D most of the time, but Lancers have been great in that role.

[HansBolter]

If you haven't played many Allied games into the late war phase, I recently learned something worth sharing.

Upon receiving the SBC-5 Helldiver, I promptly upgraded every last fleet CV squadron flying SBC-4s (which was the majority of the dive bomber squadron because SBD-5 and SBD-6 production is not sufficient) and found that I had completely run out of SBC-5's because the production stopped well before the war ended.

I ended up downgrading over half of the SBC-5 squadrons back to SBC-4s, which were way more plentiful than the SBC-5s.


I think any experienced Allied player works the aircraft pools by selectively upgrading, while retaining some squadrons with older models. Just because a plane is an older model doesn't mean it isn't a viable aircraft that should be used until its pools are depleted.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

If you haven't played many Allied games into the late war phase, I recently learned something worth sharing.

Upon receiving the SBC-5 Helldiver, I promptly upgraded every last fleet CV squadron flying SBC-4s (which was the majority of the dive bomber squadron because SBD-5 and SBD-6 production is not sufficient) and found that I had completely run out of SBC-5's because the production stopped well before the war ended.

I ended up downgrading over half of the SBC-5 squadrons back to SBC-4s, which were way more plentiful than the SBC-5s.


I think any experienced Allied player works the aircraft pools by selectively upgrading, while retaining some squadrons with older models. Just because a plane is an older model doesn't mean it isn't a viable aircraft that should be used until its pools are depleted.

Thanks Hans. Yeah, I feel this way about all but a few airframes. The Devastators will most likely not be used again, but many worse planes flying for other nations will be in the mix just because there isn't an alternative that's around in enough numbers. I will even use the British Buffalos if I have to, but luckily there are enough Hurris to go around for now.

[RangerJoe]

I like to use the Devastators with 4 bombs on transports and the Buffaloes are good on high CAP - at least against the computer. Of course, with the Buffaloes, they need numbers and a few Hurris flying 5k lower helps. So do a few P-40s help - the B model is better defensively than the E model but the B model does not have as many .50 cals.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I like to use the Devastators with 4 bombs on transports and the Buffaloes are good on high CAP - at least against the computer. Of course, with the Buffaloes, they need numbers and a few Hurris flying 5k lower helps. So do a few P-40s help - the B model is better defensively than the E model but the B model does not have as many .50 cals.

Others have posted that the Hurris are best for high CAP because they retain their maneuverability better than most other aircraft.

[RangerJoe]

I thought that you wanted the most maneuverable lower since they can dodge the bounce better. But the Buffs at 20k with the Hurris at 15k when the enemy comes in at 10-15k. [:D]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I thought that you wanted the most maneuverable lower since they can dodge the bounce better. But the Buffs at 20k with the Hurris at 15k when the enemy comes in at 10-15k. [:D]

At 15K you are right, but if the CAP is patrolling against sweeps above 25K, I think the Hurris retain their maneuverability better than most other aircraft. They seem to do well against Tojos at altitude.

[RangerJoe]

This was against Oscars and Zeros escorting Nells and Sallies from Singapore over Palembang. As long as I had a numerical edge, things were great. The AI did not sweep very much. The Sallies would fly higher than the Nells.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I thought that you wanted the most maneuverable lower since they can dodge the bounce better. But the Buffs at 20k with the Hurris at 15k when the enemy comes in at 10-15k. [:D]

For the Japanese planes in general yes. Maneuver lower. Speed and power high.

For the Allies everything is different. You're never going to outmaneuver A6M and Ki-43 and J2M2 low. A mid-level layered CAP can work since most Allied planes are faster and keep maneuver well up to 15k-20k. In general though I've not been doing as much defense as offense.

Against early sweeps when you'd need to use Buffs, use the Hurris up high above max alt of Japanese planes.

[RangerJoe]

Thank you.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]Feb 21, 1943[/font]

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Sent a few PTs to check out what the IJN has near Naha. Lost about half of them. Got to see one BB TF with an odd composition. Not many DDs around.

A bit of cat and mouse at Tiensien with a large CAP trap there seeing only some small sweeps today. [;)]
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 21, 1943
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Day Time Surface Combat, near Naha at 94,66, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso
CA Mogami
CL Agano
CL Kitakami
DD Matsukaze

Allied Ships
PT-44, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-115
PT-184, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-185, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-186, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

Poor visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 6,000 yards

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Day Time Surface Combat, near Naha at 94,66, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso
CA Mogami
CL Agano
CL Kitakami
DD Matsukaze

Allied Ships
PT-180, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-181
PT-182
PT-183, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Poor visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 6,000 yards

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Morning Air attack on Tientsin , at 95,41

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 28,800 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 11
A6M3a Zero x 19
J2M2 Jack x 11
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 1
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 17

Allied aircraft
P-66 Vanguard x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

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Ground combat at Yenki (110,44)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1224 troops, 102 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 1417

Defending force 122550 troops, 1146 guns, 323 vehicles, Assault Value = 3504

Japanese ground losses:
397 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 15 (2 destroyed, 13 disabled)

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This is fun. I now have recon on Tokyo. Crazy there are only 13 fighters here. If there aren't 100 next turn I'm going to go for it.

[BBfanboy]

Nice recon of Tokyo - 9/14 DL should give some decent accuracy.
If he skimped on ground troops at Tokyo to, you could drop paras to take the base and destroy all those aircraft factories. What happens to the paratroops after that is worth it! I know - pipe dreams. [:)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Nice recon of Tokyo - 9/14 DL should give some decent accuracy.
If he skimped on ground troops at Tokyo to, you could drop paras to take the base and destroy all those aircraft factories. What happens to the paratroops after that is worth it! I know - pipe dreams. [:)]

There are plenty of troops!!

But, some bases elsewhere look more vulnerable. I'm building a picture now and will think about how to proceed once I know more.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]Feb 22, 1943[/font]

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So no detection or evidence of SIGINT that I can see in Cent Pac yet. I don't see the KB, which is a bit of a worry, but no DL on my sub shield yet either. About 2-3 days before the first TF goes in at Marcus, quickly followed by one at Pagan. Hopefully the Guam TF will make it to the party at the same time, but it's just North of Babeldaob now so that's not a guarantee.

This is less about the bases and more about linking ConUS with the PI and China. As long as I can get a good foothold and suppress any Japanese forces here, I'l be fine to leave Saipan and Tinian alone. I do have forces fully prepped and ready for Iwo and Chichi-jima though, and will try and move up quickly if this all pans out in the next few weeks.

The Japanese continued to bombard bases around Okinawa, but subs are getting in some shots at least now. The Japanese pull-back left Kirin less defended, and some of the forward armor around Tungua had shifted back and took it. Gives a nice forward airfield for the Il-2 and a more decent rail connection.

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 22, 1943
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ASW attack near Okinoerabushima at 96,65

Japanese Ships
DMS W-22
BB Kirishima
CA Aoba
DD Onami
TB Hato
DD Yugao
DD Tachikaze
DD Ariake
DD Yugure

Allied Ships
SS Trout, hits 3

SS Trout launches 2 torpedoes at DMS W-22
Trout bottoming out ....

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Night Naval bombardment of Kume-jima at 94,65

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima
CA Aoba
CA Myoko

Allied ground losses:
41 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Port hits 7
Port supply hits 3

F1M2 Pete acting as spotter for BB Kirishima
BB Kirishima firing at Kume-jima

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Morning Air attack on 16th Garrison Unit , at 108,42 (Kirin)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
I-16m24 x 4
SB-2 x 62

Allied aircraft losses
SB-2: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x SB-2 bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 100 kg GP Bomb
6 x SB-2 bombing from 5000 feet

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Morning Air attack on 3rd Mobile Infantry Regiment, at 102,42 , near Yingkow

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
I-153 x 19
IL-2 x 18

Allied aircraft losses
IL-2: 1 damaged
IL-2: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
47 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x IL-2 bombing from 2000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking 37th/C Division ...
Also attacking 3rd Mobile Infantry Regiment ...

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Ground combat at Davao (79,91)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 11535 troops, 209 guns, 125 vehicles, Assault Value = 258

Defending force 5762 troops, 41 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 105

Allied adjusted assault: 85

Japanese adjusted defense: 112

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
417 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
32nd Infantry Division

Defending units:
4th Indpt SNLF Coy
Yokosuka 4th SNLF
86th Naval Guard Unit
5th Indpt SNLF Coy
85th Naval Guard Unit
16th Div /3
8th JAAF AF Coy
Yokosuka 3rd SNLF
11th Garrison Unit
8th Port Unit
5th Fleet /3

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Ground combat at Kirin (108,42)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 20331 troops, 216 guns, 2075 vehicles, Assault Value = 1138

Defending force 7414 troops, 28 guns, 57 vehicles, Assault Value = 156

Allied adjusted assault: 945

Japanese adjusted defense: 69

Allied assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Kirin !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3073 casualties reported
Squads: 51 destroyed, 57 disabled
Non Combat: 140 destroyed, 74 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Vehicles lost 64 (53 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Units retreated 3

Allied ground losses:
328 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 45 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 42 (3 destroyed, 39 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
208th Tank Brigade
74th Tank Brigade
263rd Motorized Brigade
82nd Tank Battalion
73rd Tank Brigade
209th Tank Brigade
172nd Brigade
111th Tank Division
10th/132nd PVO AA Battalion

Defending units:
16th Garrison Unit
4th Army
11th JAAF AF Bn

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[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Ground combat at Davao (79,91)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 11535 troops, 209 guns, 125 vehicles, Assault Value = 258

Defending force 5762 troops, 41 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 105

Allied adjusted assault: 85

Japanese adjusted defense: 112

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
417 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
32nd Infantry Division

Defending units:
4th Indpt SNLF Coy
Yokosuka 4th SNLF
86th Naval Guard Unit
5th Indpt SNLF Coy
85th Naval Guard Unit
16th Div /3
8th JAAF AF Coy
Yokosuka 3rd SNLF
11th Garrison Unit
8th Port Unit
5th Fleet /3

All your pics and commentary from the updates have largely been focused "Formosa Centric"

i.e. West of Formosa Ground combat / East of Formosa Amphib and Naval

[8D]

If its not too much of a bother - please - very little commentary needed unless you have plans there...

[:D]

Luzon / Leyte / Mindaro

Also Batvia to Timor ?

I suspect traditional hot houses like Guadalcanal and PM are completely Allied controlled

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

ORIGINAL: obvert

Ground combat at Davao (79,91)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 11535 troops, 209 guns, 125 vehicles, Assault Value = 258

Defending force 5762 troops, 41 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 105

Allied adjusted assault: 85

Japanese adjusted defense: 112

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
417 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
32nd Infantry Division

Defending units:
4th Indpt SNLF Coy
Yokosuka 4th SNLF
86th Naval Guard Unit
5th Indpt SNLF Coy
85th Naval Guard Unit
16th Div /3
8th JAAF AF Coy
Yokosuka 3rd SNLF
11th Garrison Unit
8th Port Unit
5th Fleet /3

All your pics and commentary from the updates have largely been focused "Formosa Centric"

i.e. West of Formosa Ground combat / East of Formosa Amphib and Naval

[8D]

If its not too much of a bother - please - very little commentary needed unless you have plans there...

[:D]

Luzon / Leyte / Mindaro

Also Batvia to Timor ?

I suspect traditional hot houses like Guadalcanal and PM are completely Allied controlled

Everything South of Okinawa is a mop-up operation. So I occasionally show something if there is important progress, and the Central Pacific move has been very prominent in the recent reports.

I'll post some more maps so you all can get more of a feel for what's happening, and what isn't. Essentially, right now all of the naval action is around Okinawa except the Cent Pac invasions upcoming. There are some air battles there but most of the daily air action is in Manchuria. Lots of slow troop movements thee I've detailed when progress is made, but I'll update with a map soon.

As to your list, Batavia and Timor have always been in Allied hands. They never fell to the Japanese. [;)]

Luzon and Mindanao were invaded by the Japanese but not completely taken. I kept Manila, Clark and Batan, and on Mindanao had PI forces holed up in Malaybalay, the central mountain base, before an US division took Cagayan back and nearly the rest of the island now. Davao is the last hold-out.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]Feb 23, 1943[/font]

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Still no detection on any of the TFs (as seen from my side anyway) moving toward the Marianas. They'll pass Marcus and have the Marcus TF go in when all of the Pagan TFs have gotten close enough to go within a turn. The Guam invasion should be right on time if all keeps moving at this pace now. Rota is a bit behind, as are a few invasions for Yap, Wolliei and Ulithi. I want nothing to do with Truk or Rabaul.

In Manchuria I've decided to close all of the airbases I can since the Japanese have largely moved to Port Arthur and have 175 fighters there. At Yenki this turn I sent in the IL-2 groups and that should keep it inactive for a few days anyway. The IJA has moved bout 2k AV troops out of there after a week of incurring a massive overstacking penalty.

I'll target Amami-Oshima and Tokaru-Rhetto next turn to see what I can get. There are some construction troops and supply landing at Ishigaki, with more on the way.
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 23, 1943
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Submarine attack near San Luis Obispo at 220,74

Japanese Ships
SS I-2

Allied Ships
xAP David Gaillard, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAP David Gaillard is sighted by SS I-2
SS I-2 attacking on the surface

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Morning Air attack on Yenki , at 110,44

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
IL-2 x 58

Allied aircraft losses
IL-2: 3 damaged

Airbase hits 31
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 32

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x IL-2 bombing from 2000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb

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Ground combat at 102,42 (near Yingkow)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1514 troops, 134 guns, 84 vehicles, Assault Value = 1977

Defending force 31074 troops, 426 guns, 595 vehicles, Assault Value = 903

Japanese ground losses:
80 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)

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Everything is now beginning to bunch up for the run in. This op could be completely uncontested, or the KB could be waiting right now to blast it. Also, Marcus is a tough nut, and if he's built forts, even a few naval guards could cause some problems. I've just gotten recon from Babeldaob to see Guam, which has only a base force, and it looks like the rest are very lightly held.

[obvert]

This is where the IJN is now after 15 months of furious naval combat. By my count this list is 112 sunk DD/TB so far. There isn't much left. It makes me think I should push hard once the rest of the USN joins up after the Central Pacific operation.

He does have about 4 CA remaining afloat, about 20-23 CL, and I think 8-9 BB, with a few in the dry-docks.