Fulda 55 2.0 bug report

[M110A1CSASS]

I'm in a middle of a PBEM++ game of the Fulda 55 2.0. I play Warsaw Pact but it seems that none of my airborne units can be airborne and that are locked in the airport.
Any idea how I can fix this issue?

[larryfulkerson]

Do you have any remaining air capability points? If you don't have enough
points to lift the unit(s) nothing will fly even though you have a handfull
of points left over. That's my understanding.

[M110A1CSASS]

The overall air transport capacity is 0/0. Is that a scenario setting or a bug.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: M110A1CSASS

The overall air transport capacity is 0/0. Is that a scenario setting or a bug.

Okay....we've found out why nothing will fly. Now we just need to know if this is a scenario setting for this turn or if it's been zero since the start of the game and is probably a bug. Try to see if the briefing notes say anything about a "timed" drop or anything about delaying the drops for some reason.

[Hellen_slith]

Hello, my NATO airborne units also have 0 air transport capability.

Has been like this since I can recall ever since TOAWII / ACOW ... not a bug but a setting by designer that was either overlooked or set purposely that way.

I figure they just have to walk.

[cathar1244]

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

Hello, my NATO airborne units also have 0 air transport capability.

Has been like this since I can recall ever since TOAWII / ACOW ... not a bug but a setting by designer that was either overlooked or set purposely that way.

I figure they just have to walk.

Interesting. Attached screen shot shows WP air transport capability. I looked at events, air transport is set and nothing I saw reduces it. This on the old .11 version of TOAW IV.

Also ran part of turn 1 for WP. Was able to board several airborne units and drop them in NATO territory.

Cheers

[Hellen_slith]

That is indeed interesting. Every time I've played this scene, I've just chalked off the paratroops (both WP and NATO) as being on foot w/o any transport capability. Maybe you can only do it on turn 1? Not sure. This requires more investigation!

[cathar1244]

Per the events, NATO air transport should kick in on turn 3.

Cheers

[Hellen_slith]

I just did a quick email test run

Turn 1: WP able to board aircraft

Turn 2: NATO and WP able to board aircraft

Turn 3: NATO air transport dropped to zero, unable to board aircraft.

I expect that at some point WP air transport drops to zero, also.

Looks like a event problem, unless it is by design that air ops can only happen in the first three or so turns.

Nice catch, M1!!!! Do you still want to continue our game? Or, we can start anew or start a different scene? I agree that having those units stuck off map now is a game killer. Let me know!

[sPzAbt653]

Event: 6, [no news]
Trigger turn: 1 (May 21st, 1955).
Effect: Air transport 1.
Value: 700.

Event: 7, [no news]
Trigger turn: 3 (May 23rd, 1955).
Effect: Air transport 2.
Value: 450.

Both sides get Air Cap that continues for the duration of the scenario, Side 1 from Turn 1, Side 2 from Turn 3.

[cathar1244]

+1 to sPzAbt653's comments. I "played" (no unit movement, just hitting the end turn button) through turn 6, and both sides still had air transport capability. Not sure why Hellen is seeing it drop. That bit about NATO being able to board aircraft on Turn 2 is flat weird. NATO should not have air transport until turn 3 and I wonder if there are even air transportable units in their OOB at that point (11th Airborne Division enters as a reinforcement later).

Hellen, you want me to zip up the scenario version I have and see how it works on your machine?

Cheers

[Hellen_slith]

Nah, that's ok. I put my trust in you and others who are much more knowledgeable.

Yes, well, it was weird. I did the same thing as you, just cycled the game w/ no movement, looked at OOB, found paratroops and tried to board aircraft. Worked for WP on T1, worked for NATO on turn 2. NATO air transport dropped to zero on turn 3.

So, I'm not sure what's going on ... except maybe scenario variability? Is that a possibility?

This is a real brain buster and I feel for my opp M1 in our game, b/c he's a good player and I hate to see him hamstrung by those forces.

At the least, I think there should be a news items about the air transport capabilities. I don't recall seeing that addressed in any scenario notes, either.

Maybe I overlooked those notes, but this is an issue that I think needs to be looked into more, if only b/c it is a scene that a lot of new players look at to try. Is frustrating to get hamstrung by something you are not aware of.

[sPzAbt653]

I think there should be a news items about the air transport capabilities. I don't recall seeing that addressed in any scenario notes, either.

I agree with you, it was my first thought, that not only there should not have to be a thread to figure this out, nor that somebody actually has to go into the Editor and run a Dump to get the details. We should have a note in the Briefing or a News item to let us know what is going on. Designers have a lot to do, and this should be one of those things to keep in mind. Even if the design intent is for something to not be known, I personally like to be told. For example, 'You will get Reinforcements, but you will not be told when and where'. In such a case at least we're told something!

By the way, the Events that are listed above are the only things that affect Air Transport for both sides [scenario variability has no effect], so some of the things being reported in this thread don't follow and I don't suspect any fault of the game or scenario. It's pretty straight forward and I would guess anything else is a misunderstanding.

[sPzAbt653]

you want me to zip up the scenario version I have and see how it works on your machine?

I am assuming that we are talking about the scenario version that ships with the game because that is the one that I looked at. If not ... never mind !

[Hellen_slith]

I agree entirely with everything you wrote, and it is to his credit that M1 has raised this issue: especially b/c this scene has such a long standing and is a scene that many first timers look at for a NATO / WP scene.

I can't remember how many times I've looked at this scene, (since TOAW II / ACOW) and for almost 20 years, I have never noticed this anomaly.

I've just accepted the fact that there is something mysterious or even amiss w/ the airborne units on both WP and NATO side, and I have never thought to see that WP airborne units could wind up being hamstrung on off-map airfields (which seems to be the case here: M1 simply cannot board his airborne now to put them on the main map.

So, anyway, that is kind of a scene killer, to be saddled as WP with units that one cannot use AT ALL. For me (as NATO in this game), my airborne is already on the main map--I just have to walk them. So it is somewhat, if a bit less, troubling, from the NATO side, too.

Idea: if M1 is amenable, I will disband my NATO airborne units that are already on the map, while WP will retain his unable to move airborne units in the hope that they can board in future ... or he can disband his units also, and we both put those resources into the replacement pool?

Would that be a fair solution? Ideally, of course we would want the scene to play out w/ airborne capability, but that seems to be unlikely now. Perhaps another alternative is if M1 chooses a different scenario that seems less wanky?

Just spitballing here. Thanks for your inputs!!!

[Hellen_slith]

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith


Just spitballing here. Thanks for your inputs!!!

Another spitball: could the Slitherine server interaction (we are playing on the Slither Server) have anything to do with this? Just guessing, but that might be a source of interaction to look into if possible.

Cheers! PS to M1, please let me know if we still want to continue in this scene, or maybe we can start a fresh game using another scene?

[sPzAbt653]

I don't understand your issue, there is nothing wrong here! Maybe clear your mind and review Post #10.

[Hellen_slith]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I don't understand your issue, there is nothing wrong here! Maybe clear your mind and review Post #10.

No issue here. Sorry if I seemed confused.

[larryfulkerson]

Hey M110A1CSASS dude:
You can use this as your avatar if you'd like.
I found it on the web.

[cathar1244]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

you want me to zip up the scenario version I have and see how it works on your machine?

I am assuming that we are talking about the scenario version that ships with the game because that is the one that I looked at. If not ... never mind !

I was running the stock version that comes with .11 version of the game. My comment was made in case Hellen somehow had a modified version of the scenario.

Cheers