Level bombers behaviour

[Gavris Narcis]

Helo,

I don't understand how work the level bombers. For that I created a simple scenario: one part with 2 medium bombers and other part with 2 88 flak guns. I preplan a 2.0 delay time bombing against the flak, I run scenario, but on 2.0 surprize: only the sound of bombings and the messsage appears, nothing visual (no icons, no crates, no smoke, no....) and no modification into enemy position. Can explain to me why doing this and how level bombers work ? And how to input an offboard flak unit ? I have H2H fr.

Leo.

[AbsntMndedProf]

My experience with level/high level bombers is that, in SP:WaW they are a major crap shoot. You have to choose where they are to bomb before you know exactly where your opponent's troops are. Then you have to hope they actually bomb where you want them to. This is very realistic from what I've read. The accuracy of WW II high level bombers was measured in hundreds of yards, making their usefulness in combat of the SP:WaW scale marginal at best. If they do hit where you tell them to, and there are enemy troops there, the enemy units are toast. However, unless you're playing AI and basically know where it will put most of its troops, choosing where they should bomb can be dicey. They are fun to play around with, but I seldom use them, as for the same points you can get very effective OB atty that can shoot more than once, and doesn't have to be targetted before the battle. I hope that helps.

Btw, with level bombers you don't actually see them. You just hear their engines overhead and see one or two bombs fall. After that, the game usually moves your view to another area of the map. This happens each time a new bomber unit begins dropping its bomb load.

I'm pretty sure what I've said is accurate. However, if it isn't, there are plenty of folks who can correct any mistakes/mistatements I may have made.

Eric Maietta

[Belisarius]

I think the 8th AF regarded anywhere within a 500 yard *radius* from the target as a direct hit. Outside was good too.

In all, level bombers in SP:WAW are more of an exotic extra which is useful for some scenarios I guess (like D-day). In ordinary battles, they're a waste of resources.

I wouldn't be surprised if WWII ground commanders viewed them in the same way...might do some good, but don't count on it.

[odog1999]

The A-20's and B-26's were very accuate when they did low-level bombing, and were durable enough to take hits from AAA and still fly. B-17's and B-24's more often than not caused as many friendly as they did enemy casualties. The only times they didn't were D-Day because they bombers were concerned enought about shorts to hold of dropping bombs for crucial seconds, hence miles inland from the beaches, and during Monty's crossing of the Rhine.

[Toontje]

Against a human level bombing can be a mayor help. You just need to find an area where he'll have to stop due to being fired upon. Bombing a road near the deployment zone on turn 0 is also of help. Still a bit expensive tho.

I still think 88's and other heavy AAA should be able to fire, after all they were designed to fire at high-altitude aircraft. Unfortunately I forgot how high they effectively could reach.

[Goblin]

You have to use level bombers in your initial deployment plotting phase, or you don't get to use them at all.

Goblin

[Toontje]

You have to PLOT them, but you can delay fire to like turn 6-7 to bombard a zone under fire from a few mg's and AT/IG's. After that games I play either see a total collapse of the lines, or the attack has been repulsed.

Only tried this 1ce btw.

[Marek Tucan]

I think the 8th AF regarded anywhere within a 500 yard *radius* from the target as a direct hit. Outside was good too.

In all, level bombers in SP:WAW are more of an exotic extra which is useful for some scenarios I guess (like D-day). In ordinary battles, they're a waste of resources.

I wouldn't be surprised if WWII ground commanders viewed them in the same way...might do some good, but don't count on it.

AFAIK one US Inf division (don't remember the numer) refused to be given ANY aerial support after few incidents in Normandy:) And somewhere I have read a nasty joke (Oh, it was G. Reagan's "Guiness book of military errors" if my re-translation of the title is correct...):

"When the Brits are bombing, Germans hide. When Germans are bombing, Allies hide, when the Americans are bombing, everyone hides":p

[Capt. Pixel]

First off, I'd only consider purchasing Level Bombers in an Advance, Assault or Defend battle, or any other situation where I can be reasonably assured of the enemy's location over time. Restrictive terrain would be a good example. (small map or impassable terrain)

During Deployment, delay your bombers over several turns.
i.e. 1 Level Bomber on Turn 2,
1 Level Bomber on Turn 3,
2 Level Bombers on Turn 5, etc.

This example would cost a lot of purchase points, to be spent on only three good (but inaccurate) punches. One could purchase a LOT of conventional artillery for the same cost. Plus, with arty, you wouldn't have to stay so far, far away from the pre-plotted bomber barrages. :rolleyes: (Sounds a bit like a discussion on Rockets, doesn't it?)

Another usage would be to soften the drop zone for an upcoming Para/Glider insertion. Spread four bombers across the landing area one turn before the Drop. Everything within 10 hexes will probably be Supressed for the next turn or two. If you're fortunate enough to have the bombers hit anywhere near where you want them to.

As far as long-range AA goes, it seems to me that the high cost of Level Bomber units would represent a 'wing' of several aircraft. The SPWaW model would appear to include a built-in percentage loss in the Wing from AA and Air-to-air intercepts. In other words, you might be paying for five bombers, but only four are arriving at any given drop zone. (Or maybe not. I don't know for sure one way or the other. :p)

Whether this is historically accurate, or even the manner in which the game's engine simulates, is irrelevant to me. In my opinion, Level Bombers are an unnecessary addition to SPWaW anyway.

[M4Jess]

Are the on-board B-17s still around?...those are naty mommas!

[AbsntMndedProf]

M4 Jess posted:

Are the on-board B-17s still around?...those are naty mommas!

Here's one:





Eric Maietta

[arethusa]

...
Another usage would be to soften the drop zone for an upcoming Para/Glider insertion. Spread four bombers across the landing area one turn before the Drop. Everything within 10 hexes will probably be Supressed for the next turn or two. If you're fortunate enough to have the bombers hit anywhere near where you want them to.

As far as long-range AA goes, it seems to me that the high cost of Level Bomber units would represent a 'wing' of several aircraft. The SPWaW model would appear to include a built-in percentage loss in the Wing from AA and Air-to-air intercepts. In other words, you might be paying for five bombers, but only four are arriving at any given drop zone. (Or maybe not. I don't know for sure one way or the other. :p)

Whether this is historically accurate, or even the manner in which the game's engine simulates, is irrelevant to me. In my opinion, Level Bombers are an unnecessary addition to SPWaW anyway.

I think you're totally accurate Capt P. My father was a bomber pilot in WWII (RAF Pathfinders). He flew Lancasters and Halifaxes. In Feb. 1944, he was flying a mission over Leipzig and 3 of his squadron of about 20 aircraft were shot down - including himself. From what he's told me, it seemed to be no worse than usual.

From what he said, the 88's and other high-level AAA was massed in the dozens, if not sometimes hundreds of guns, depending on the importance of the target. Because of their slow rate of fire, they usually didn't hit a plane directly unless they were one of the 1 in 20 guns that were connected to a radar. The real idea of these guns was to put up a lot of shells in front of the bombers with timed explosions. It was the shrapnel of a near miss that was dangerous, seldom the shell itself. However, the object wasn't to shoot down the bombers, that was what the Me109's and FW190's and later on the Me262's were for. The main reason for the big guns was to make the bombers shift direction, if only just a little so that they'd miss the target.

And hitting the target was unlikely anyway, especially in the scale of SPWAW. Keep in mind that you're bombing from a height of up to 25,000 feet, close to 5 miles and travelling close to 300mph. How accurate do you think you can be like that. So hitting within 500 feet, or 10 hexes would be pretty good. These bombers were meant more to destroy big target like factories, dockyards, airports and entire military bases but certainly not to hit even squadrons of tanks.

There were occassions though were the Lancs dropped bombs up to 10,000 lbs each. Made for a pretty big hole when it stopped.

Oh, and Capt P is also correct in that these big bombers, whether B-17's, B-24's, Lancs, Halies or whatever, are totally unecessary in SPWAW and not effective for the cost in this type of theatre.