Coastal Artillery Question

[Zovs]

For my War In Europe scenario some units I used a static icon for the first and the coastal for the 2nd icon. For the dedicated coastal I just used the default but I had to jack up the NAD due to the naval units getting creamed and sunk too easily.

Seems to work ok.

I had to do a bunch of tests to get to feel right.

[76mm]

There two different coastal artillery icons; does this problem arise with both of them?

[VHauser]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

There two different coastal artillery icons; does this problem arise with both of them?

Yes, unfortunately.

[VHauser]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

For my War In Europe scenario some units I used a static icon for the first and the coastal for the 2nd icon. For the dedicated coastal I just used the default but I had to jack up the NAD due to the naval units getting creamed and sunk too easily.

Seems to work ok.

I had to do a bunch of tests to get to feel right.

I just tested this and it did not work for me--the static/coastal artillery unit was instantly destroyed.

[sPzAbt653]

I've tried lowering the NAD in Europa 1947, but this just results in naval units being massacred

Try testing it with a setting of 100, because going up REDUCES the number of shots and has nothing to do with vulnerability levels. Going down INCREASES number of shots. Its the same way with the non-naval AD.

[VHauser]

After further testing, the "RR artillery solution" for the coastal artillery problem does indeed work, but the cure is perhaps worse than the disease. You might want to mess around with it some, but I do not recommend this "solution" to the coastal artillery problem.

[VHauser]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Try testing it with a setting of 100, because going up REDUCES the number of shots and has nothing to do with vulnerability levels. Going down INCREASES number of shots. Its the same way with the non-naval AD.

Europa 1947 has a default NAD of 100. I've tested it at 100 and I've tested it at 10. In both cases, the coastal artillery is instantly destroyed.

[sPzAbt653]

Where can I find that scenario? I don't see it in Modern Misc and I'd rather not search thru all folders.

[VHauser]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Where can I find that scenario? I don't see it in Modern Misc and I'd rather not search thru all folders.

It's in the Hypothetical folder.

[sPzAbt653]

Not here ... heck with folders, I searched my computer and couldn't find it. So I guess it didn't ship with IV ? Ok then, just give me a standard scenario that shipped with IV that anyone is having this issue with so that I can get into it.

And maybe I'm wrong but it seems like we've been thru this before [:(] [and right here in this very thread!].

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: VHauser

Here is a possible work around.
Use . . .

Maybe you can build a new costal gun that has the attributes of a tank and extremely high agility. Make it hard to hit and difficult to penetrate.

Or, try deploying a stack of costal units. Might take several combat rounds to destroy them all.

Regards, RhinoBones

[VHauser]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Not here ... heck with folders, I searched my computer and couldn't find it. So I guess it didn't ship with IV ? Ok then, just give me a standard scenario that shipped with IV that anyone is having this issue with so that I can get into it.

And maybe I'm wrong but it seems like we've been thru this before [:(] [and right here in this very thread!].

No need. I've spent the past day-and-a-half messing with this and I'm pretty convinced that there is no solution to this problem without re-writing some of the game code. And even that might not be worth the effort because "fixing" this problem might break something else.

The scenario I'm working on has to deal with the entire European coastline (with emphasis on a reinforced Atlantic Wall), which means that broken coast artillery also breaks my scenario. But that's my problem. If I can't "solve" it with some sort of workaround, then I'll have to shelve this project. Oh well.

The good news is that most TOAW scenarios don't include coast artillery, so players still have lots of scenarios to choose from.

[sPzAbt653]

But Vic, go to the WWII - West Front folder and open up a new game of Overlord 44. You can move the Allied ships all up and down the coast and experience a lot of shore fire and counterbattery, but nothing like is being described in this thread. So here is the thing, from my chair, there is no need to mess with this. It works fine. No one has been able to give me a stock scenario that displays this behaviour, and until that happens so that it can be reproduced in a controlled test, there is nothing for me to report as needing a fix.

I'm working on has to deal with the entire European coastline

I get that, I've done a few myself, and they work fine. Here is one example: tm.asp?m=4378627
Here is another: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=1&key=

No they weren't in the release, but they were initially and were removed at the eleventh hour by my choice. I bring these up because they were designed and/or tested/adjusted with IV. I'll also add that during development the NAD Setting was identified as having a definite effect on scenarios, and because of that we tested and reset [where necessary] the NAD for all of the release scenarios.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

But Vic, go to the WWII - West Front folder and open up a new game of Overlord 44. You can move the Allied ships all up and down the coast and experience a lot of shore fire and counterbattery, but nothing like is being described in this thread. So here is the thing, from my chair, there is no need to mess with this. It works fine. No one has been able to give me a stock scenario that displays this behaviour, and until that happens so that it can be reproduced in a controlled test, there is nothing for me to report as needing a fix.

I'm working on has to deal with the entire European coastline

I get that, I've done a few myself, and they work fine. Here is one example: tm.asp?m=4378627
Here is another: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=1&key=

No they weren't in the release, but they were initially and were removed at the eleventh hour by my choice. I bring these up because they were designed and/or tested/adjusted with IV. I'll also add that during development the NAD Setting was identified as having a definite effect on scenarios, and because of that we tested and reset [where necessary] the NAD for all of the release scenarios.

Steve, check to see if you're playing with a version later than 4.1.0.25 - that's the version where Ralph fixed this.

[VHauser]

I'm running version 4.1.0.23. Where do I get a later version?

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: VHauser

I'm running version 4.1.0.23. Where do I get a later version?

You wait for the next update release.

[VHauser]

Ah, then if I'm running the latest released version and my coastal artillery is broken, do you recommend I shelve my project until a later version is released that solves this problem?

[rmeckman]

One TOAW IV stock scenario that has a evaporating coastal fort is Fall Weiss 1939. On turn 1 for the Germans, move the Schleswig-Holstein one hex to the northeast. The Laskowshiego coastal battery on the Hel Peninsula will fire at the ship. Although the ship will take some damage (largely due to the high number of shots stemming from a naval divider of 10), the fort usually evaporates. The naval combat rules will be used both for the fort's fire and the ship's counter fire. Here is one of the fortress MMGs being taken out in the log file:

[font="Arial"]
FleetCombat: Target Unit bat.Laskowskiego.
FleetCombat: Target Equipment Medium MG.
FleetCombat: Chance shock hit rnd(1,59)*100>rnd(1,9)*80.
FleetCombat: Weather Modifiers Total = 0.910000 Source(11) = 1.000000, Target(11) = 0.660000.
FleetCombat: Chance guns hit range 4.990000.
FleetCombat: Chance guns hit .91(odds)*.91(weather).
FleetCombat: Chance guns hit 82>rnd(1,100).
FleetCombat: Damage 1 hit 380>rnd(1,2).
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
FleetCombat: Penetration hit rnd(1,380/2)>rnd(1,0).
FleetCombat: Penetration 2 hit 15 = rnd(1,38)*rnd(1,50)/21.
FleetCombat: Critical chance 15
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
Combat : Medium MG destroyed. (specificAttrit=1)
[/font]

In this case, the penetration caused 15% additional damage, which is assessed by taking out 15 more MMG teams. So this one shot took out 1+15=16 of the 24 MMGs in the fortress.

[sPzAbt653]

check to see if you're playing with a version later than 4.1.0.25 - that's the version where Ralph fixed this.

Yeah, that's what I said posts ago - that it may be fixed and if I'm given a scenario to test then I will find out for sure, but they never gave me one, so ...

... but I think that means that any scenarios where the NAD was raised for IV should now be revisited. [I've noticed that the NAD setting of 100 has resulted in less naval hits in the beta versions].

[sPzAbt653]

One TOAW IV stock scenario that has a evaporating coastal fort is Fall Weiss

Thanks for looking into this. That would be my fault because I think I mistook this one for Grun and skipped it as being land locked. [:(]