Question on Akagi

Snigbert · Post by **Snigbert** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:51 am

Does anyone know what that thing is, which resembles a large smokestack turned on it's side, which is jutting out of the side directly across from the island?
Is that water coming out of it in the picture?

Any ideas?

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:01 am

It was a large smokestack turned on its side.

The illustrator apparently didn't realize that and must have figured it was a disposal chute for the crew's whiz water (I also like the depiction of Kates as single-engine stretch passenger airliners).

The design idea was to "funnel" the diesel smoke away from the area of flight deck operations.

CynicAl · Post by **CynicAl** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:35 am

What he said.

One possible explanation for the stuff pouring out of the funnel might be water condensation from stack gases cooling as they pass through the big bend in the funnel. Unfortunately there's just not enough data available to to say with certainty whether this was a real phenomenon or mere artistic license.

pry · Post by **pry** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:26 pm

Smoke from her 2nd funnel often blew across the flight deck interfering with flight operations so both funnels were trunked into an enlarged 1st funnel which was directed out and downward during Akagi's modernization (10/35-08/38). Kaga also was modified in the same manner (06/34-06/35)

This poor image of Kaga (1936) below shows the stack modification and smoke directed away from the flight deck. From this image one can see how the artist took their creative license in the image Snigbert posted.

dwesolick · Post by **dwesolick** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:48 pm

Hey Sniggy,

That IS water gushing out from all those 1000 pounders I put into her!

Actually, the above are quite correct. I just completed a great model (Hasegawa, 1/450) of Akagi and that thingy is a funnel. It may have also served to disperse the smoke and decrease the chance of Akagi being spotted.

Anyway, I also have an Akagi related question: What was the purpose of all those bedrolls (I think, bedrolls) on the Akagi's tower? Did they offer extra protection? Was this a way of airing out bedclothes?

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:22 pm

shrapnel protection primarily

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:46 pm

Which ever way you cut it.....she is an ugly ship!

U2 · Post by U2 » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:02 pm

Raverdave wrote:Which ever way you cut it.....she is an ugly ship!

No she is not!

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:19 pm

Hi, dwesolick those are sandbags.

Apollo11 · Post by **Apollo11** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:26 pm

Hi all,

Both USA and Japan build their CVs on hulls of battleships/battlecruisers
after the Washington treaty.

IMHO, all those 4 ships look nice!

Leo "Apollo11"

Snigbert · Post by **Snigbert** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:46 am

I thought it looked like a smokestack but I couldnt figure out why it was angled down. Thanks for the info.

MJHerman · Post by **MJHerman** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:17 am

If you look at pictures of Kaga, Soryu and Hiryu you will see that they all have similar funnel arrangements. I believe that Sho and Zui have a "normal" funnel arrangement (Taiho, Junyo and Shinano certainly did). You will also note that Akagi's and Soryu's island is on the "wrong" side of the flightdeck.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:37 am

Hi, I believe the Japanese placed the Island on opposite sides for Hiryu and Soryu because they envisioned the CV sailing abreast during flight ops. By the time they built Zuikaku and Shokaku they knew better.
(I think Kaga and Akagai were also built as partners)

MJHerman · Post by **MJHerman** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:58 am

Mogami wrote:Hi, I believe the Japanese placed the Island on opposite sides for Hiryu and Soryu because they envisioned the CV sailing abreast during flight ops. By the time they built Zuikaku and Shokaku they knew better.
(I think Kaga and Akagai were also built as partners)

Sort of....the original design reason was that amidships is the best place for both the funnels and the island, so Akagi (or maybe Kaga) was built with this in mind (i.e., island and funnels on opposite side of deck but in line with each other). The flight ops justification apparently arose later, and never worked well in practice.

pry · Post by **pry** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:29 am

Mogami wrote:Hi, I believe the Japanese placed the Island on opposite sides for Hiryu and Soryu because they envisioned the CV sailing abreast during flight ops. By the time they built Zuikaku and Shokaku they knew better.
(I think Kaga and Akagai were also built as partners)

Soryu's island was on the starboard side Hiryu's was on the port.

Hey Mogami below is a short part of Akagi and Hiryu's history about the port island from The Imperial Japanese Navy, By Watts and Gordon 1971. I consider this work one of the best ever done on the IJN
(One of those "Must Have" books for ones WWII reference library)

Akagi, Lack of a decent bridge had also been felt, and this too was remedied in the modernization (36-38) a proper island superstructure being constructed amidships on the port side. The port side was chosen as an experiment as it was felt that this would cause less obstruction to a pilot's vision when landing and improve control of flying operations. A similar experiment was tried out on the new carrier Hiryu under construction at the same time. (See Hiryu)

Hiryu
It was hoped that sitting the bridge on the port side would give the commander (Air) better control of flying operations and enable the aircraft to have a greater length of flight deck available for takeoff. In practice it proved a failure. Although it did give greater control of flying operations and better take-off facilities, the bridge seriously restricted the length of deck for landing operations and caused a reduction in aircraft parking space on the flight deck. Far more serious than these defects, however were the conflicting air currents and turbulence which appeared immediately aft of the bridge, causing much distress to the pilots. So dangerous were these defects that the Japanese Navy never again considered sitting the bridge on the port side of a carrier.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:37 am

Hi, That certainly makes more sense. Still I'd give a lot to have a picture of two CV sailing abreast launching aircraft.

Bobthehatchit · Post by **Bobthehatchit** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:16 pm

U2 wrote:No she is not!

Yes she is

Lex and Sarra look a lot better.

mdiehl · Post by **mdiehl** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:24 am

Have to agree with Bobthehatchit. Akagi is an ugly ship. This is a ship with an aesthetic that says "With sufficient watertight compartmentation, even the Empire State building could be made to float."

Give me Hiryu any day. Or even Shinano (with it's own version of the 'Who bent the funnel?' awkward appearance).

Sam-I-am · Post by **Sam-I-am** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:14 pm

I fail to see where it would make a difference as to which side of the ship the island is placed.

The proper placement of the smoke stack I can understand, but as long as the placement of the island is not in the middle of the flight deck is the only concern that makes sence to me.

Sorry, I was in the Army not the Navy

mdiehl · Post by **mdiehl** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:17 am

The issue isn't the location of the island. It's that Akagi's funnel makes it look like it has a tumor or has already sustained heavy damage.

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