Downfall

[Andy Mac]

Going to start messing about with an update on this scenario next if anyone had any feedback before I start on either scen or AI performance much appreciated

[Knavey]

I would love to see this updated...getting to the end game in a PBEM and this might be next.

[Andy Mac]

Its on the list to do next just want some feedback before I start

[HansBolter]

Andy Mac,

Great to see you are still in action!

Impossible to say too much how we all appreciate your efforts.

[&o][&o][&o]

[RogerJNeilson]

Currently playing it as the Allies. My current concern is that the Empire throws planes at all manner of targets with no sense of the cost benefits of them. Don't know if that's anything you can do much about.

Roger

[JeffroK]

Gday Andy.

I found that there was a lot of maintenance needed to USN carriers. Their aircraft loadings often had the VF's with 18 aircraft instead of 36. You needed to adjust the numbers,sail away for a bit, return to port and wait for the change, then add new aircraft 12 at a time.

Allied experience values were pitiful for the time period.

Allied aircraft pools are too low, many have zero, plus production should be turned up, I often got down to double digits for P-51 & P-47's.

US Armour often has M-5 or M-3 Grants, should have M-24 & M-4, I think that the Aussie armour should have 1 battalion equipped with late model Churchills and the rest with M-4's.

Many US LCU have early war squads, 37mm AT Guns, 37mm & 3inch AA guns.

I really like the scenario, a lot of power behind the Allies which can turn to jelly if the kamikazes get into your CV fleets.

[RogerJNeilson]

It was disappointing that the Soviets are not involved. I realise that as play balance goes there is probably a good reason for that, but it would be cool to use them as well. I suspect they seldom get used in any games from any other scenarios unless the Empire activates them.

Roger

[inqistor]

Dude! Scenario is about invasion of Home Islands. Give Japan those frikkin Type 100 submachine guns, and Type 4 70 mm Bazookas they were keeping for that occasion!

[jdsrae]

G’day Andy
I played Downfall once years ago and the low experience (40s and 50s?) of the B29 pilots is what I remember seemed most strange.
It takes a few months to train them up, is that intentional to slow down the pace of Strat bombing for the first few months?

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

Allied experience values were pitiful for the time period.

[Barb]

Yup, playing it as Allies against AI now...

The allies have NO trained pilots in reserve, their Pools are empty... One can afford only to appear near the Home Islands once in two weeks or month and even that for short time only. One has to be very careful.

[Andy Mac]

So far my fix list

1. Change autoconvoy start location to be Singapore and PH
2. Update AI
3. US airframe pools
4. US Pilot pools and xp levels
5. Remove Dutch Sqns
6. Check US Divs for.old devices
7. Review Aus Armoured Bde
8. Add Shinyo Suicide boats for Japan as MTBs
9. Check US CVs and move those damaged At Okinawa to west coast with some damage
10. Create more Sub TFs with patrol zones to minimise player turn 1 time for both sides
11. Maybe add a few more DEI bases back in to give options for JApanese to pick at LOC
12. Add score damage for VPs
13. Extend map south to Manus and move BPF start point to that location


There will be more but this is my list so far

[Andy Mac]

14. Fix USN CAGs to correct size

[RogerJNeilson]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

So far my fix list

1. Change autoconvoy start location to be Singapore and PH
2. Update AI
3. US airframe pools
4. US Pilot pools and xp levels
5. Remove Dutch Sqns
6. Check US Divs for.old devices
7. Review Aus Armoured Bde
8. Add Shinyo Suicide boats for Japan as MTBs
9. Check US CVs and move those damaged At Okinawa to west coast with some damage
10. Create more Sub TFs with patrol zones to minimise player turn 1 time for both sides
11. Maybe add a few more DEI bases back in to give options for JApanese to pick at LOC
12. Add score damage for VPs
13. Extend map south to Manus and move BPF start point to that location


There will be more but this is my list so far

Yes to number 1..... would save a lot of clicks and backroom admin.

Roger

[spence]

3. US airframe pools

How were the US airframe pools set? If Japan had not surrendered when they did IRL it seems that the concern is that the Japanese Player be competitive yet the airframe pools do not contain sufficient airframes for the Allies to continue the war (?) let alone those that were ordered before the Japanese surrender. For instance there are no PV-1s or PV-2s in the game already (and they were in theater) but 500 PV-2Ds (attack bomber) were ordered prior to the surrender; an order cancelled in Sept '45 (less than 10 constructed prior to cancellation).

(Was PV-2D vice PV-3D)

[Canoerebel]

Really neat to see AndyMac pop up with this announcement. Glad to have you active and engaged and present, Andy.

Perhaps once you get the mod done, somebody can entice Nemo to play this mod again. His match some seven or eight years back was epic.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Really neat to see AndyMac pop up with this announcement. Glad to have you active and engaged and present, Andy.

Perhaps once you get the mod done, somebody can entice Nemo to play this mod again. His match some seven or eight years back was epic.

Meh, it was Nemo's personal mod of Downfall. He lowered accuracy of Allies 4Es guns, and most of his devastating night attacks were made exclusively by some Japanese 4Es.

[Andy Mac]

Best guess by me when I did it I will be increasing US pools especially in obsolete aircraft and earlier marks of new production

ORIGINAL: spence

3. US airframe pools

How were the US airframe pools set? If Japan had not surrendered when they did IRL it seems that the concern is that the Japanese Player be competitive yet the airframe pools do not contain sufficient airframes for the Allies to continue the war (?) let alone those that were ordered before the Japanese surrender. For instance there are no PV-1s or PV-2s in the game already (and they were in theater) but 500 PV-3Ds (attack bomber) were ordered prior to the surrender; an order cancelled in Sept '45 (less than 10 constructed prior to cancellation)

[Andy Mac]

Not looking at Nemo's mod updating the orginal what if scenario I wrote back in the day

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Really neat to see AndyMac pop up with this announcement. Glad to have you active and engaged and present, Andy.

Perhaps once you get the mod done, somebody can entice Nemo to play this mod again. His match some seven or eight years back was epic.

Meh, it was Nemo's personal mod of Downfall. He lowered accuracy of Allies 4Es guns, and most of his devastating night attacks were made exclusively by some Japanese 4Es.

[CaptBeefheart]

Thanks, Andy. I played this quite a while ago but from what I recall the advice above is good. I also think the shipbuilding program was a bit light for the USN if you consider they wouldn't have cancelled ships if the war weren't going as well as historically it did.

You might take a look at Ian R's "The Long Road to Tokyo" mod for some ideas on additional ship and aircraft production. Here it is.

Cheers,
CB

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

So far my fix list

5. Remove Dutch Sqns

May I humbly suggest that you remove the orginal NEI squadrons, but replace them (partially) with:

Two of the Dutch RAAF combat squadrons should stay, with name and equipment changes as follows:

RAAF #18 - renames to 18 BVA KNL - on 460105, should get a possible upgrade from B25s to US supplied A26.

RAAF #119 - see below.

RAAF #120 - renames to 120 JVA KNL on 460620, trades upwards from Kittyhawk IV to us sourced P51D, also (and this comment applies across the board) its RAAF squadron max of 24 reduces to max size 16.

I say only two squadrons because depending on which source you read, one of the bomber squadrons did some training and then was broken up with the rump becoming RAAF #19 (transports). IIRC without looking it up it was #119.

RAF# 321 squadron (Catalinas) renames as VSQ 321 MLD on 450812, max size change to 8 aircraft, possible upgrade to US sourced PBs.

RAAF # 19 ( C-47s) - gets a Dutch name on 470101 so probably not relevant.

And:

Add the following KNL squadrons: (I have used the actual formation/arrival locales, so you may need to move them on map)

121 JVA KNL, US sourced P51, stands up 460501 in Melbourne. Max size is 16.

122 JVA KNL, US sourced P51, stands up 460801 in Darwin, max 16. Might be too late date wise.

320 BVA KNL, US sourced B25J1 with an upgrade to A26 - stands up 450915 in Trincomalee, max size 16.

322 JVA KNL*. UK sourced Spitfire FIV (should upgrade to Mustangs) - stands up 450915 in Aden, max size 16.

[*This was #322 Squadron RAF... see rationale below].


This one is a bit of an outlier, but up to you:

860 PVA MLD - 16 x Fairey Fireflies, arrives on the CVE Karel Doorman. (* or split into two flights, one of Fireflies, one with Barracudas.)

The ship is an ex RN CVE (HMS Nairana - for game purposes, a Vindex class), but does not arrive until August 1946.

Way back in 2005 when Don Bowen was discussing late war Dutch Forces on the old WITP forum, he omitted it as arriving too late, so I guess it depends on what your scenario end date is.

Rationale - as the scenario goes to 1946, the NEI has not been liberated; therefore these Dutch units are not involved in suppressing the Indonesians, the IJA is still there, and are contributed to Downfall to get the Dutch some cachet post-war at the peace table.