Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
I learned that Tanks backed up by lots of artillery are great at taking down heavily fortified cities/bases. Naval bombardments don't normally target the enemy tanks unless there aren't that many units present but aerial bombing does target tanks.
Good luck!
Good luck!
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Any update?
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Haven't played but a few turns in the past couple of weeks. Have been screwing around with a computer build.
May get some time this weekend to advance this scenario and will provide updates as I can.
Hadn't meant for this to become a mini-AAR, but I can see why some have an interest in seeing how things play out as we rarely get to see events transpiring in 1946.
Thanks for the interest.
May get some time this weekend to advance this scenario and will provide updates as I can.
Hadn't meant for this to become a mini-AAR, but I can see why some have an interest in seeing how things play out as we rarely get to see events transpiring in 1946.
Thanks for the interest.
Hans
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Hans, This thread/AAR is good. I like reading it. Very good information....GP
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"Do everything you ask of those you command" Gen. George S. Patton
WiS Discord channel coming soon....
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
The alternative to the A bomb would have to have been a naval blockade for an extended period of time, leading to a change of government in Japan that would have come to the table for talks. How long would that have taken though...
Back in 1945 the mores of 2019 did not apply. The populations of the Allied nations were pretty much indifferent as to the survival of the general Japanese population. By August 1945 the combination of submarines operating in the Sea of Japan and the B-29 mining campaign had reduced said population to eating grass. Without Russia attempting to grab land in the Far East (per Downfall) there would have been little reason to not impose such a blockade that ultimately would have starved the Japanese people into submission (or death).
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
ORIGINAL: spence
Back in 1945 the mores of 2019 did not apply. The populations of the Allied nations were pretty much indifferent as to the survival of the general Japanese population. By August 1945 the combination of submarines operating in the Sea of Japan and the B-29 mining campaign had reduced said population to eating grass. Without Russia attempting to grab land in the Far East (per Downfall) there would have been little reason to not impose such a blockade that ultimately would have starved the Japanese people into submission (or death).
All very good points.
I would add a few.
Source: Victory in the Pacific : PBS : The American Experience (specific show). I strongly recommend this very balanced presentation which includes many Japanese Historians and cites evidence available.
Truman was largely under pressure from Marshall to "be resolute - be a leader - make the tough choices". The quickest way to end the war was invasion.
Conversely James Byrnes - his mentor was deeply worried about the losses, the impact on the President and how to achieve unconditional surrender. Allowing Japan terms in Byrnes opinion would be the end of the Truman Presidency. I would say "some advisers" favored the Blockade approach until they were aware of the Bomb.
There was no concern about the use of the Bomb nor a starvation tactic as indicated above. This was simply the natural extension of the FDR administration and the requirement for unconditional surrender - it had to be achieved. The US AND Japan demonized their opponents in very racially charged ways.
As to change in Government in Japan ? Apparently never likely.
Once the Postdam declaration was issued "even the moderates" within the Japanese government mistook it as a sign of weakening US resolve. Magic / Ultra intercepts and Imperial war diaries indicate the Government was prepared to carry on - they had all the guns - and ket-su-go (spelling) was on.
Once the double shock of Soviet mobilization and the Bomb occured - some Japanese leaders wanted the surrender terms to append: Japanese Army to disarm itself - No Occupation - Japan to try its own War Criminals - and of course the infamous "Imperial Prerogative".
This is quite remarkable given they had recommended their own people eat grass as official policy. It is very clear the War Cabinet intended to carry on till the end - until such time they had sacrificed themselves as well.
A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
ORIGINAL: btd64
Hans, This thread/AAR is good. I like reading it. Very good information....GP
Yes,
I like it too. In WITP-AE, 1946 is the far country.
Hans is like an explorer going into the darkest Amazon where few players have ever set foot
and taking a look around.
Maybe some of the players we have not heard from in years have gone there
and never returned.
"A man's got to know his limitations" -Dirty Harry
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
On February 12th we went for another round at Osaka, reducing forts to 6 for a heavy price:
Ground combat at Osaka/Kyoto (109,59)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 148794 troops, 2910 guns, 2525 vehicles, Assault Value = 3755
Defending force 129259 troops, 1423 guns, 210 vehicles, Assault Value = 2753
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 6
Allied adjusted assault: 1051
Japanese adjusted defense: 18873
Allied assault odds: 1 to 17 (fort level 6)
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
2086 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 123 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 53 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 35 disabled
Guns lost 71 (9 destroyed, 62 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
14998 casualties reported
Squads: 33 destroyed, 1574 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 212 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 337 disabled
Guns lost 328 (18 destroyed, 310 disabled)
Vehicles lost 200 (11 destroyed, 189 disabled)
Assaulting units:
785th Tank Battalion
82nd (West African) Division
87th Infantry Division
8th Infantry Division
10th Indian Division
31st Infantry Division
38th Infantry Division
2nd Australian Division
8th Australian Division
I Corps Engr Grp
4th Infantry Division
767th Tank Battalion
9th Indian Division
194th Tank Battalion
6th Army Engr Grp
5th Indian Division
72nd Mortar Battalion
85th Mortar Battalion
134th (East Ang) Regiment
86th Medium Regiment
786th Field Artillery Battalion
147th Field Artillery Battalion
789th Field Artillery Battalion
6th Medium Regiment
778th Field Artillery Battalion
8th Belfast Heavy Regiment
85th Medium Regiment
87th Medium Regiment
1st Indian Medium Regiment
779th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Indian Field Regiment
780th Field Artillery Battalion
88th Medium Regiment
Defending units:
143rd JAAF AF Bn
6th Ind. Brigade
355th Division
61st Ind.Mixed Brigade
16th Ind. Brigade
123rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
190th JAAF AF Bn
153rd Division
25th Ind.Mixed Brigade
144th Division
216th Division
13th JAAF AF Bn
225th Division
163rd JAAF AF Bn
49th Division
316th Division
56th Ind.Mixed Brigade
189th JAAF AF Bn
84th Division
37th Ind.Mixed Brigade
147th Division
61st JAAF AF Bn
246th JAAF AF Bn
26th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Air Division
8th Imperial AA Division
13th Base Force
Kinki JNAF Base Force
2nd Machine Cannon AA Battalion
Osaka Naval Base Force
45th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Maizuru Naval Base Force
25th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
53rd Air Flotilla
11th Machine Canno AA Battalion
15th Area Army
65th Construction Battalion
5th Imperial AA Division
121st AA Regiment
22nd Ind. AA Battalion
Kakogawa JAAF Base Force
Ground combat at Osaka/Kyoto (109,59)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 148794 troops, 2910 guns, 2525 vehicles, Assault Value = 3755
Defending force 129259 troops, 1423 guns, 210 vehicles, Assault Value = 2753
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 6
Allied adjusted assault: 1051
Japanese adjusted defense: 18873
Allied assault odds: 1 to 17 (fort level 6)
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
2086 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 123 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 53 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 35 disabled
Guns lost 71 (9 destroyed, 62 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
14998 casualties reported
Squads: 33 destroyed, 1574 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 212 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 337 disabled
Guns lost 328 (18 destroyed, 310 disabled)
Vehicles lost 200 (11 destroyed, 189 disabled)
Assaulting units:
785th Tank Battalion
82nd (West African) Division
87th Infantry Division
8th Infantry Division
10th Indian Division
31st Infantry Division
38th Infantry Division
2nd Australian Division
8th Australian Division
I Corps Engr Grp
4th Infantry Division
767th Tank Battalion
9th Indian Division
194th Tank Battalion
6th Army Engr Grp
5th Indian Division
72nd Mortar Battalion
85th Mortar Battalion
134th (East Ang) Regiment
86th Medium Regiment
786th Field Artillery Battalion
147th Field Artillery Battalion
789th Field Artillery Battalion
6th Medium Regiment
778th Field Artillery Battalion
8th Belfast Heavy Regiment
85th Medium Regiment
87th Medium Regiment
1st Indian Medium Regiment
779th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Indian Field Regiment
780th Field Artillery Battalion
88th Medium Regiment
Defending units:
143rd JAAF AF Bn
6th Ind. Brigade
355th Division
61st Ind.Mixed Brigade
16th Ind. Brigade
123rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
190th JAAF AF Bn
153rd Division
25th Ind.Mixed Brigade
144th Division
216th Division
13th JAAF AF Bn
225th Division
163rd JAAF AF Bn
49th Division
316th Division
56th Ind.Mixed Brigade
189th JAAF AF Bn
84th Division
37th Ind.Mixed Brigade
147th Division
61st JAAF AF Bn
246th JAAF AF Bn
26th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Air Division
8th Imperial AA Division
13th Base Force
Kinki JNAF Base Force
2nd Machine Cannon AA Battalion
Osaka Naval Base Force
45th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Maizuru Naval Base Force
25th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
53rd Air Flotilla
11th Machine Canno AA Battalion
15th Area Army
65th Construction Battalion
5th Imperial AA Division
121st AA Regiment
22nd Ind. AA Battalion
Kakogawa JAAF Base Force
Hans
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
On the 13th we went for another round at Kagoshima reducing forts to 3 for a heavy price.
Kagoshima has been my bane in this campaign. It was the first large base with level 9 forts that was invested.
Most of the HI has been overrun and it still hasn't fallen.
Ground combat at Kagoshima (102,60)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 147855 troops, 1980 guns, 1468 vehicles, Assault Value = 3532
Defending force 72383 troops, 89 guns, 386 vehicles, Assault Value = 523
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3
Allied adjusted assault: 1666
Japanese adjusted defense: 1810
Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
5727 casualties reported
Squads: 36 destroyed, 69 disabled
Non Combat: 166 destroyed, 325 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 14 (4 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 29 (5 destroyed, 24 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
3989 casualties reported
Squads: 297 destroyed, 256 disabled
Non Combat: 48 destroyed, 70 disabled
Engineers: 63 destroyed, 37 disabled
Guns lost 87 (58 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Vehicles lost 50 (21 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Assaulting units:
37th Infantry Division
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
1st Prov Chinese Corps
716th Tank Battalion
25th Infantry Division
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
97th Infantry Division
XI Corps Engr Grp
3rd Australian Brigade
1st Motor Brigade
XXIV Corps Engr Grp
2nd New Chinese Corps
104th Infantry Division
7th New Chinese Corps
5th New Chinese Corps
3rd Motor Brigade
710th Tank Battalion
X Corps Engr Grp
1st New Chinese Corps
706th Tank Battalion
5th Chinese Corps
98th Mortar Battalion
134th Field Artillery Battalion
797th Field Artillery Battalion
750th Field Artillery Battalion
198th Field Artillery Battalion
225th Field Artillery Battalion
749th Field Artillery Battalion
669th Field Artillery Battalion
30th Field Artillery Regiment
168th Field Artillery Battalion
544th Field Artillery Battalion
532nd Field Artillery Battalion
545th Field Artillery Battalion
531st Field Artillery Battalion
249th Field Artillery Battalion
226th Field Artillery Battalion
71st Mortar Battalion
543rd Field Artillery Battalion
4th Field Artillery Battalion
145th Field Artillery Battalion
655th Field Artillery Battalion
80th Mortar Battalion
Defending units:
156th Division
4th Raiding Regiment
212th Division
1st Glider Inf. Regiment
3rd Raiding Regiment
146th Division
102nd Division
8th SP Gun Division
6th Ind.Tank Brigade
17th Garrison Division
57th Depot Division
2nd Air Fleet
3rd Depot Division
Waifu JAAF Base Force
2nd Glider Inf. Regiment
51st Depot Division
107th JAAF AF Bn
55th Depot Division
98th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Guards Depot Division
5th Depot Division
109th Ind.Mixed Brigade
126th Ind.Mixed Brigade
40th Army
103rd Division
5th Ind.Tank Brigade
26th JNAF AF Unit
6th Depot Division
107th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Kyushu JNAF Base Force
37th Ind. Engineer Regiment
7th Division
206th Division
312th Division
4th Depot Division
56th Depot Division
Kagoshima has been my bane in this campaign. It was the first large base with level 9 forts that was invested.
Most of the HI has been overrun and it still hasn't fallen.
Ground combat at Kagoshima (102,60)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 147855 troops, 1980 guns, 1468 vehicles, Assault Value = 3532
Defending force 72383 troops, 89 guns, 386 vehicles, Assault Value = 523
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3
Allied adjusted assault: 1666
Japanese adjusted defense: 1810
Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
5727 casualties reported
Squads: 36 destroyed, 69 disabled
Non Combat: 166 destroyed, 325 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 14 (4 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 29 (5 destroyed, 24 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
3989 casualties reported
Squads: 297 destroyed, 256 disabled
Non Combat: 48 destroyed, 70 disabled
Engineers: 63 destroyed, 37 disabled
Guns lost 87 (58 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Vehicles lost 50 (21 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Assaulting units:
37th Infantry Division
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
1st Prov Chinese Corps
716th Tank Battalion
25th Infantry Division
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
97th Infantry Division
XI Corps Engr Grp
3rd Australian Brigade
1st Motor Brigade
XXIV Corps Engr Grp
2nd New Chinese Corps
104th Infantry Division
7th New Chinese Corps
5th New Chinese Corps
3rd Motor Brigade
710th Tank Battalion
X Corps Engr Grp
1st New Chinese Corps
706th Tank Battalion
5th Chinese Corps
98th Mortar Battalion
134th Field Artillery Battalion
797th Field Artillery Battalion
750th Field Artillery Battalion
198th Field Artillery Battalion
225th Field Artillery Battalion
749th Field Artillery Battalion
669th Field Artillery Battalion
30th Field Artillery Regiment
168th Field Artillery Battalion
544th Field Artillery Battalion
532nd Field Artillery Battalion
545th Field Artillery Battalion
531st Field Artillery Battalion
249th Field Artillery Battalion
226th Field Artillery Battalion
71st Mortar Battalion
543rd Field Artillery Battalion
4th Field Artillery Battalion
145th Field Artillery Battalion
655th Field Artillery Battalion
80th Mortar Battalion
Defending units:
156th Division
4th Raiding Regiment
212th Division
1st Glider Inf. Regiment
3rd Raiding Regiment
146th Division
102nd Division
8th SP Gun Division
6th Ind.Tank Brigade
17th Garrison Division
57th Depot Division
2nd Air Fleet
3rd Depot Division
Waifu JAAF Base Force
2nd Glider Inf. Regiment
51st Depot Division
107th JAAF AF Bn
55th Depot Division
98th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Guards Depot Division
5th Depot Division
109th Ind.Mixed Brigade
126th Ind.Mixed Brigade
40th Army
103rd Division
5th Ind.Tank Brigade
26th JNAF AF Unit
6th Depot Division
107th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Kyushu JNAF Base Force
37th Ind. Engineer Regiment
7th Division
206th Division
312th Division
4th Depot Division
56th Depot Division
Hans
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Shimizu fell on February 14th to a shock attack by the 20th Armor Division.
The paras present in the hex entered that turn and did not participate in the attack.
round combat at Shimizu (112,61)
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 7563 troops, 155 guns, 792 vehicles, Assault Value = 696
Defending force 4924 troops, 50 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 14
Allied adjusted assault: 353
Japanese adjusted defense: 3
Allied assault odds: 117 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Shimizu !!!
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-94-II: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)
Japanese ground losses:
1554 casualties reported
Squads: 53 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 210 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 25 (25 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 6
Assaulting units:
20th Armored Division
14th LRP Brigade
Lushai Brigade
77th LRP Brigade
Defending units:
105th JAAF AF Bn
60th Field AA Battalion
7th JNAF AF Unit
10th JNAF AF Unit
13th Air Flotilla
Hamamatsu JAAF Base Force
The paras present in the hex entered that turn and did not participate in the attack.
round combat at Shimizu (112,61)
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 7563 troops, 155 guns, 792 vehicles, Assault Value = 696
Defending force 4924 troops, 50 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 14
Allied adjusted assault: 353
Japanese adjusted defense: 3
Allied assault odds: 117 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Shimizu !!!
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-94-II: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)
Japanese ground losses:
1554 casualties reported
Squads: 53 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 210 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 25 (25 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 6
Assaulting units:
20th Armored Division
14th LRP Brigade
Lushai Brigade
77th LRP Brigade
Defending units:
105th JAAF AF Bn
60th Field AA Battalion
7th JNAF AF Unit
10th JNAF AF Unit
13th Air Flotilla
Hamamatsu JAAF Base Force
Hans
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
The B29s have switched over to daylight bombing. The IJ air in Tokyo and Yokahama is 99% suppressed.
If I rest for three days a few interceptors will come up to meet me, otherwise its a milk run now.
The B29-1s and B29-Bs are flying out of Shanghai. The B29-25s have staged forward from Tinian and are flying out of Nagasaki now.
Morning Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes
Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 36
B-29B Superfort x 91
Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 17 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 37 damaged
Manpower hits 97
Fires 105482
Afternoon Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 27,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes
Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 6
Thunderbolt II x 7
B-29-25 Superfort x 283
La-5FN x 2
Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 113 damaged
Manpower hits 146
Fires 119310
If I rest for three days a few interceptors will come up to meet me, otherwise its a milk run now.
The B29-1s and B29-Bs are flying out of Shanghai. The B29-25s have staged forward from Tinian and are flying out of Nagasaki now.
Morning Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes
Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 36
B-29B Superfort x 91
Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 17 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 37 damaged
Manpower hits 97
Fires 105482
Afternoon Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 27,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes
Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 6
Thunderbolt II x 7
B-29-25 Superfort x 283
La-5FN x 2
Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 113 damaged
Manpower hits 146
Fires 119310
Hans
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Backing up a few days, on February 11th I landed 3 Marine and 3 Army divisions each at Chiba and Utsonamiya. Both hexes are adjacent to Tokyo. On the 12th both objectives fell to the initial assaults. In addition, the Soviet 2nd Red Banner Army is adjacent to Utsonamiya ready to advance into Tokyo. The First Red Banner Army has invested Sendai. The 6th Guards Tank Armay and 17th Army overran northern Honshu. The NorPac invasion of Hokkaido is loaded and underway toward the beach at Bihoro, with a Soviet Army ready to follow.
Ground combat at Utsonomiya (115,60)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 84122 troops, 1207 guns, 1606 vehicles, Assault Value = 2592
Defending force 47365 troops, 419 guns, 220 vehicles, Assault Value = 1096
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Allied adjusted assault: 3185
Japanese adjusted defense: 46
Allied assault odds: 69 to 1 (fort level 2)
Allied forces CAPTURE Utsonomiya !!!
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
D5Y1 Myojo: 10 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 8 destroyed
A6M2-N Rufe: 4 destroyed
E7K2 Alf: 2 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 3 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M8 Zero: 4 destroyed
A7M3-J Sam: 20 destroyed
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 16 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 23 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 28 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 5 destroyed
Ki-51 Sonia: 3 destroyed
Ki-79a Nate: 4 destroyed
Ki-27b Nate: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 6 destroyed
Ki-54b Hickory: 33 destroyed
Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
22440 casualties reported
Squads: 513 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 725 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 114 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 254 (254 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 164 (164 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 9
Allied ground losses:
1682 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 259 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 80 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 53 disabled
Guns lost 32 (3 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Vehicles lost 113 (6 destroyed, 107 disabled)
Assaulting units:
40th Infantry Division
2nd Arm Amphib Battalion
110th Cmbt Engineer Battalion
35th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
2nd Marine Division
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
131st Cmbt Engineer Regiment
4th USMC Tank Battalion
4th Marine Division
6th USMC Tank Battalion
780th Amphib Tank Battalion
6th Marine Division
98th Infantry Division
44th Tank Battalion
91st Infantry Division
713th Flame Tank Battalion
2/592nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
9th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
XIV US Corps
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
672nd AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
33rd MAG
10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
534th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
23rd MAG
2nd Pioneer Battalion
1/592nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
3/592nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
6th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
42nd MAG
Defending units:
116th Ind.Mixed Brigade
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
214th Division
115th Ind.Mixed Brigade
61st Division
351st Division
81st Division
60th Ind.Mixed Brigade
51st Army
Kasumigaura JNAF Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chiba (114,61)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99181 troops, 1532 guns, 2101 vehicles, Assault Value = 3126
Defending force 25597 troops, 320 guns, 2045 vehicles, Assault Value = 1014
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4
Allied adjusted assault: 5181
Japanese adjusted defense: 104
Allied assault odds: 49 to 1 (fort level 4)
Allied forces CAPTURE Chiba !!!
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
A7M3-J Sam: 82 destroyed
G4M3a Betty: 92 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 4 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 2 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 4 destroyed
D4Y2-S Judy: 18 destroyed
D4Y2-C Judy: 1 destroyed
S1A1 Denko: 22 destroyed
J1N1-Sa Irving: 14 destroyed
D5Y1 Myojo: 23 destroyed
D4Y2 Judy: 28 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 27 destroyed
G8N Rita: 14 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 5 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 5 destroyed
Q1W1 Lorna: 8 destroyed
N1K1 Rex: 4 destroyed
G4M1-L Betty: 19 destroyed
H8K2-L Emily: 9 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 9 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 9 destroyed
C6N2 Myrt: 9 destroyed
Ki-27b Nate: 6 destroyed
Ki-9 Spruce: 14 destroyed
Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
6848 casualties reported
Squads: 95 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 860 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 141 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 252 (242 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1983 (1969 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Units retreated 10
Units destroyed 1
Allied ground losses:
1449 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 101 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 28 disabled
Vehicles lost 130 (16 destroyed, 114 disabled)
Assaulting units:
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
1st Arm Amphib Battalion
5th USMC Tank Battalion
708th Amphib Tank Battalion
8th Army Engr Grp
775th Tank Battalion
3rd Marine Division
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
776th Amphib Tank Battalion
720th Flame Tank Battalion
18th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
IX Corps Engr Grp
81st Infantry Division
27th Infantry Division
5th Marine Division
43rd Infantry Division
1st Marine Division
1st USMC Tank Battalion
3rd Arm Amphib Battalion
Marinier Brigade
826th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
XVIII US Corps
727th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
7th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th MAG
III Amphib Corps
9th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
540th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
1st USMC AA Battalion
31st MAG
3/542nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
2/542nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
1st Pioneer Battalion
82nd Mortar Battalion
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
5th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
4th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
21st MAG
X US Corps
1/542nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
1st Marine Air Wing
88th Mortar Battalion
41st MAG
Defending units:
27th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Division
42nd Division
2nd Ind.Tank Brigade
42nd Brigade
1st Ind.Tank Brigade
3rd Ind.Tank Brigade
48th Tank Regiment
2nd SP Gun Division
14th Hvy.Artillery Regiment
52nd Army
Mito JAAF Base Force
Ground combat at Utsonomiya (115,60)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 84122 troops, 1207 guns, 1606 vehicles, Assault Value = 2592
Defending force 47365 troops, 419 guns, 220 vehicles, Assault Value = 1096
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Allied adjusted assault: 3185
Japanese adjusted defense: 46
Allied assault odds: 69 to 1 (fort level 2)
Allied forces CAPTURE Utsonomiya !!!
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
D5Y1 Myojo: 10 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 8 destroyed
A6M2-N Rufe: 4 destroyed
E7K2 Alf: 2 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 3 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M8 Zero: 4 destroyed
A7M3-J Sam: 20 destroyed
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 16 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 23 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 28 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 5 destroyed
Ki-51 Sonia: 3 destroyed
Ki-79a Nate: 4 destroyed
Ki-27b Nate: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 6 destroyed
Ki-54b Hickory: 33 destroyed
Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
22440 casualties reported
Squads: 513 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 725 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 114 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 254 (254 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 164 (164 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 9
Allied ground losses:
1682 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 259 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 80 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 53 disabled
Guns lost 32 (3 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Vehicles lost 113 (6 destroyed, 107 disabled)
Assaulting units:
40th Infantry Division
2nd Arm Amphib Battalion
110th Cmbt Engineer Battalion
35th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
2nd Marine Division
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
131st Cmbt Engineer Regiment
4th USMC Tank Battalion
4th Marine Division
6th USMC Tank Battalion
780th Amphib Tank Battalion
6th Marine Division
98th Infantry Division
44th Tank Battalion
91st Infantry Division
713th Flame Tank Battalion
2/592nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
9th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
XIV US Corps
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
672nd AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
33rd MAG
10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
534th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
23rd MAG
2nd Pioneer Battalion
1/592nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
3/592nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
6th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
42nd MAG
Defending units:
116th Ind.Mixed Brigade
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
214th Division
115th Ind.Mixed Brigade
61st Division
351st Division
81st Division
60th Ind.Mixed Brigade
51st Army
Kasumigaura JNAF Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chiba (114,61)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99181 troops, 1532 guns, 2101 vehicles, Assault Value = 3126
Defending force 25597 troops, 320 guns, 2045 vehicles, Assault Value = 1014
Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4
Allied adjusted assault: 5181
Japanese adjusted defense: 104
Allied assault odds: 49 to 1 (fort level 4)
Allied forces CAPTURE Chiba !!!
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
A7M3-J Sam: 82 destroyed
G4M3a Betty: 92 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 4 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 2 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 4 destroyed
D4Y2-S Judy: 18 destroyed
D4Y2-C Judy: 1 destroyed
S1A1 Denko: 22 destroyed
J1N1-Sa Irving: 14 destroyed
D5Y1 Myojo: 23 destroyed
D4Y2 Judy: 28 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 27 destroyed
G8N Rita: 14 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 5 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 5 destroyed
Q1W1 Lorna: 8 destroyed
N1K1 Rex: 4 destroyed
G4M1-L Betty: 19 destroyed
H8K2-L Emily: 9 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 9 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 9 destroyed
C6N2 Myrt: 9 destroyed
Ki-27b Nate: 6 destroyed
Ki-9 Spruce: 14 destroyed
Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
6848 casualties reported
Squads: 95 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 860 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 141 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 252 (242 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1983 (1969 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Units retreated 10
Units destroyed 1
Allied ground losses:
1449 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 101 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 28 disabled
Vehicles lost 130 (16 destroyed, 114 disabled)
Assaulting units:
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
1st Arm Amphib Battalion
5th USMC Tank Battalion
708th Amphib Tank Battalion
8th Army Engr Grp
775th Tank Battalion
3rd Marine Division
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
776th Amphib Tank Battalion
720th Flame Tank Battalion
18th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
IX Corps Engr Grp
81st Infantry Division
27th Infantry Division
5th Marine Division
43rd Infantry Division
1st Marine Division
1st USMC Tank Battalion
3rd Arm Amphib Battalion
Marinier Brigade
826th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
XVIII US Corps
727th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
7th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th MAG
III Amphib Corps
9th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
540th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
1st USMC AA Battalion
31st MAG
3/542nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
2/542nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
1st Pioneer Battalion
82nd Mortar Battalion
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
5th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
4th AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
21st MAG
X US Corps
1/542nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
1st Marine Air Wing
88th Mortar Battalion
41st MAG
Defending units:
27th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Division
42nd Division
2nd Ind.Tank Brigade
42nd Brigade
1st Ind.Tank Brigade
3rd Ind.Tank Brigade
48th Tank Regiment
2nd SP Gun Division
14th Hvy.Artillery Regiment
52nd Army
Mito JAAF Base Force
Hans
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
And the final update for today before I start another turn is a map of the current status:


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Hans
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
ORIGINAL: Macclan5
There was no concern about the use of the Bomb nor a starvation tactic as indicated above. This was simply the natural extension of the FDR administration and the requirement for unconditional surrender - it had to be achieved. The US AND Japan demonized their opponents in very racially charged ways.
The other often overlooked point is that both the US and Japan had chemical warfare supplies in place, and some biological weapons. Official policy on both sides was to use them only in retaliation (although the IJA had used gas in China, and, according to Polmar & Allan, against the Soviets in the 1939 clashes).
The US had a large stockpile on Okinawa, and a massive one on Luzon - many thousands of tons of the stuff. A specialised bomb had been developed to deliver it by air (or maybe that was the anthrax).
If some renegade IJ Colonel had used gas on Kyushu, all hell would have broken loose. The 'collateral damage' would quite possibly have been in 7 figure territory.
"I am Alfred"
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Using biological weapons brings its own problems for your side when they take over the infected area. They are best used to suppress areas that you have no intention of going into and can prevent infected enemy from escaping out of. I don't know if you can rely on biological agents to die off after there are no more humans to infect. In recent times the combination of humans, pigs, birds and mosquitos has been a breakout disease incubator and spreader.ORIGINAL: Ian R
ORIGINAL: Macclan5
There was no concern about the use of the Bomb nor a starvation tactic as indicated above. This was simply the natural extension of the FDR administration and the requirement for unconditional surrender - it had to be achieved. The US AND Japan demonized their opponents in very racially charged ways.
The other often overlooked point is that both the US and Japan had chemical warfare supplies in place, and some biological weapons. Official policy on both sides was to use them only in retaliation (although the IJA had used gas in China, and, according to Polmar & Allan, against the Soviets in the 1939 clashes).
The US had a large stockpile on Okinawa, and a massive one on Luzon - many thousands of tons of the stuff. A specialised bomb had been developed to deliver it by air (or maybe that was the anthrax).
If some renegade IJ Colonel had used gas on Kyushu, all hell would have broken loose. The 'collateral damage' would quite possibly have been in 7 figure territory.
And some of the modern nerve agents are lethal in trace doses on the skin. I hope all leaders are reluctant to open that Pandora's box!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
I re-read the chapter after posting.
The US Army Air forces 1944 retaliation plan, following any IJ first use, was to air deliver, within 15 days, 86,000 bombs delivering mustard gas or phosgene, plus they had 6500 multiple use spray tanks for low altitude delivery of mustard gas.
By April 1945 there were 43,000 mustard gas release land mines stockpiled in the Pacific for defensive belt use.
By 1945, the numbers had increased to 1 million chemical bombs, 100k+ reusable aerial spray tanks, along with a stockpile of 5.5m chemical artillery shells.
This is all from Polmar & Allen starting around page 204 for those with the book.
If some idiot Colonel Tsuji type had used chem on the Kyushi beaches, we are talking absolute, terminal, carnage.
The US Army Air forces 1944 retaliation plan, following any IJ first use, was to air deliver, within 15 days, 86,000 bombs delivering mustard gas or phosgene, plus they had 6500 multiple use spray tanks for low altitude delivery of mustard gas.
By April 1945 there were 43,000 mustard gas release land mines stockpiled in the Pacific for defensive belt use.
By 1945, the numbers had increased to 1 million chemical bombs, 100k+ reusable aerial spray tanks, along with a stockpile of 5.5m chemical artillery shells.
This is all from Polmar & Allen starting around page 204 for those with the book.
If some idiot Colonel Tsuji type had used chem on the Kyushi beaches, we are talking absolute, terminal, carnage.
"I am Alfred"
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Seems that I read somewhere about the bombers on the I-400 series I-boats were at least considered as delivery vehicles for some sort of biological or chemical weapon. They were probably the only way of delivering that sort of weapon against the target most suseptible to such weapons: civilians. Of course would probably have assured that Halsey's remark shortly after Pearl Harbor came true.
- Gridley380
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:24 pm
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
And the final update for today before I start another turn is a map of the current status:
HansBolter, what do the overall army points look like at this point?
As others have said, thank you for updating this mini-AAR.
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
Hans, that battle at Osaka looks like you're making good progress. Granted your casualties were still very high, but only a relatively small number of destroyed squads. So if you can rotate out the burned out units that particular combat result doesn't seem so bad. Admittedly, I don't know if you have enough time for the large number of disabled squads to recover enough to get any more use out of those units.
- HansBolter
- Posts: 7457
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
- Location: United States
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction
ORIGINAL: Gridley380
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
And the final update for today before I start another turn is a map of the current status:
HansBolter, what do the overall army points look like at this point?
As others have said, thank you for updating this mini-AAR.
Been playing this game since release and its predecessor prior to that and have to confess I have no idea what 'army points' are. Is it a Japanese thing?
Hans






