My first view of 5.01

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 10:11 pm

I played my first several 5.01 scenarios (German vs Poland, generated WWII campaign) this weekend. Here are my comments.

The Polish buy units routine is better. No more hundred or so tanks but what are these "gun support squads" with only rifles and handgrenades? There are dozens of them. It seems that this is a bug in the routine or are they something the Poles really deployed with all infantry companies?

The AIP has a better mine setup routine for defenses. It used to use one linear belt. Find one mine hex with artillery and you knew where all the mines were within a hex or two. I was surprised (to the tune of four tanks out) by mines several hexes in front of the main belt.

I easily beat the AIP on a medium battle but found it difficult to deal with hundreds (~300 or so) of units on the hard (2x my buy points). This is a great idea but it needs more granularity, i.e. some more increments.

And lastly, I love the overrun sound file!!!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:52 am

Glad you are enjoying it, G-2!

Wild Bill

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Tue Jun 12, 2001 3:20 am

That Overrun stuff IS great!! I go crazy with it - driving around looking for things to overrun. It makes cleanup at the end of Campaign battle even MORE fun!!

Figmo

rich12545 · Post by **rich12545** » Tue Jun 12, 2001 4:30 am

Wellll (biggest sigh) eventually I'll get my disk and will find out.

David boutwell · Post by **David boutwell** » Tue Jun 12, 2001 7:13 am

You and me, both, Rich

I haven't been able to play SPWAW in over a month, now.

David Boutwell

Stuart Millis · Post by **Stuart Millis** » Tue Jun 12, 2001 8:47 am

Gun support squads.

Polish gun teams were large. Mostly the extra men would be horse handlers and ammo bearers etc, but they all carried rifles. And when the guns were firing those extra rifles could be used for defending the guns against infantry attack.

Unfortunately the AI does not know how to use them.

So shoot them down with your PzI's

[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Stuart Millis ]

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Tue Jun 12, 2001 9:24 am

David and Rich, I understand your frustration, I really do. This kind of post only heightens it. My apologies. Kinda like rubbing salt in the wound but we did not mean it that way.

I've been talking with David via long distance on a daily basis and he assures me that all possible is being done to get these CDs to you.

As you may know, this path has been fraught with difficulties that have slowed down the process way too much.

And of course I am anxious to see that Mega Campaign get out of the gate and onto the track. Frustrating for me and the design team.

Hang in there. We are learning and will do better as we go. We do very much appreciate the ready support both of you and thousands more have shown to date.

Wild Bill

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:51 pm

I played a German advance against British delay:

The AIP has always been better at stationary scenarios than in the advance but it seems that it has been tweaked even better (Paul will probably say that the code wasn't changed and its just my imagination). The AIP still put a string of infantry out in the open following the setup front but behind that, around the objectives, it placed units in depth and in mutually supporting positions. I tried to punch through then move laterally in its real area to take the AIP from the flank/rear. I found units back there with overlapping fields of fire that kept ambushing me. While I was able to fight through and overwhelm them with multiple attacks, the ambushes left a string of burning wrecks (my wrecked units) in my wake.

What happened to those pop up boxes with the % to hit and penetration results? I don't see them anymore.

On a similar note, when the AIP shoots at me, it is often difficult to determine what generic type of weapon is firing. I am not asking to be told that its a model x MG but its difficult to know if its rifle or MG auto fire, ATR or main gun fire, etc. IRL I'd at least know that much.

kao16 · Post by **kao16** » Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:53 am

Originally posted by Larry Holt:

What happened to those pop up boxes with the % to hit and penetration results? I don't see them anymore.

Have a look at your preferences. "Live Delay" is probably set to zero.

m10bob · Post by **m10bob** » Thu Jun 14, 2001 7:05 am

I'm veeeerrrrryyyy satisfied with this version of "sp"..I was really tired of the M10's and M18's being sitting ducks..Now they're guns are actually worth something close to real life!...(First shot,first kill,instead of "first miss and bail out"!!!)Also like the fact infantry can rout but is still able to hold it's own if necessary,(and supported)..Real combined arms has a chance with any country now..(Italians and Poles used to be a cakewalk,not accurate at all,but that's been fixed....Great!!!

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:34 pm

I've played the Germans against the Poles, Brits and French.

Brits: very hard troops, they often do not fall back, even with broken force morale individual infantry squads fight on without any degregation, the platoon HQs have the ATRs (that are accurate out to 15 hexes or so) so deal with those first but watch the rifle grenades that all squads have.

French: almost arcade like they are so easy to kill, squads often fall back after only one kill, they can get 15% or so close assault so be carefull driving up next to them.

Poles: in the middle, lots of ATRs but not so accurate as the Brits, in between as far as ability to shoot them up and fall back, etc.

Note that I did not see any Char Bs or Matildas! Oh joy, oh rapture a realistice AIP buy routine.

Mike Wood · Post by **Mike Wood** » Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:59 pm

Hello...

For version 5.01, we recoded the purchase, deployment and mine laying routines for the artificial intelligence.

Hope You like them...

Michael Wood
Lead Programmer,
Matrix Games

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Thu Jun 14, 2001 9:03 pm

They are much better. Perhaps I will become used to them in time but they are less brain dead and tactically much better.

I really did not expect this much development effort for SPWAW and I am delighted with it.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Thu Jun 14, 2001 9:31 pm

During the AIP side, I often see an entry at the bottom of the screen, "crew panics" etc. There is no indication of which side had the panic. Knowing if it was my or the other's side would be useful and realistic.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:09 am

Tank panic always occurs during the OTHER guys turn, so crew panic only applies to the "non-phasing player" to use old SPI parlance...

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:09 am

Gotta agree, new AI routines are a vast improvement. Poles have been toughened up, as they should have been, and the concept of "tank terror" is well abstracted. Melee and overrun are also good additions. Good Job, all.
(I believe when you see "xxx panics" during the AI turn, that refers to an AI unit that attempted to move,attack and failed a MC.)

A.H · Post by **A.H** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 6:33 pm

Guess, who's 5.01 didn't work. Guess who was told to download the vid998.smk file. Guess whos game didn't work even after the extracting to a right folder. Guess who spent many, many hours downloading the update and the file with his 56k modem. Guess who has done everything possible to get the game to work. Guess who is still not playing. This ain't funny people.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:29 pm

Originally posted by kao16:

Have a look at your preferences. "Live Delay" is probably set to zero.

So right / thanks!

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:47 pm

Overrun comments:

I overran a mortar with a tank and the tank became immobilized. It is not clear if this was a regular movement kind of immobilization or if the tube got stuck in my running gear, that is if the over run itself caused this.

Armored cars can't over run. Before you start up, better check this out otherwise you might stick one out there in a hex with enemy infantry and be surprised.

Mobility:
I ran a tank into a building and it was immobilized, no surprise there. However, several turns later, it was fixed. This is the first time that I have seen a vehicle in a building get fixed.

Brummagem · Post by **Brummagem** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 10:35 pm

Love the new AI. The computer actually mixes it up a bit now. Actually ran into a mine field in one game that was put were I would have put it to slow up a flanking move....too cool. I actually have to pull out the stops and use real tactics when I'm on the assault. Thanks for a great game...loking forward to ordering the Mega when you have the delivery bugs worked out.