Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction

[Barb]

Yup, probably bombard only (I think you are safe to include combat units with artillery) for a few weeks should whittle enemy down considerably - over-stacking is the culprit here on the enemy side.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

And finally a situation map for February 22, 1946:

872 enemy units? Good thing those aren't cardboard counters! On the other hand...if they were....a cat would plow through that stack faster than any in-game weapon.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

The AI does not seem to understand stacking limits.

Add some shock armour to the bombardments, run the BBs in from Yokohama, and crumble them.

1. Arrival locations for new and resurrected LCUs cannot take into account stacking limits. Not everyone plays a stacking limit game.

2. Non island stacking limits were introduced post release of AE. It would require a fair amount of database research/retyping to spread out the arrival locations. That still would not take into account player resurrections and being subjective would indubitably result in criticism.

3. You don't want to mess up other AI routines which are based on the current arrival locations.

Alfred

[RangerJoe]

Just think of all of the units that you destroyed instead of bypassing and isolating with destruction coming much later, now they are dug in at the Home Islands. If you were to do this all over again, would you bypass and isolate many units, destroying them much later like in this time period of the game? Or would you bypass and isolate, just bombing and bombarding them?

[Ian R]

Alfred,

I don't play with the stacking limits map - because I only play the AI.

I accept that your points are all correct.... but

Even so, the IJA scripted opponent over-stacks 6000 atolls, and even type 1 & 2 islands (30k/60k). Including with static restricted divisions form the Asian mainland.

My point is, the antidote is a persistent application of large calibre naval rifles, bombers, and a highly prepped landing force featuring tanks.

regards

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Just think of all of the units that you destroyed instead of bypassing and isolating with destruction coming much later, now they are dug in at the Home Islands. If you were to do this all over again, would you bypass and isolate many units, destroying them much later like in this time period of the game? Or would you bypass and isolate, just bombing and bombarding them?

Nope, I will still destroy every last Japanese unity I have an opportunity to destroy.

Only bypassed units are those that were never attacked like the ones at Truk.

[RangerJoe]

I was thinking of bypassing and destroying them later in a mop up operation. That way, when they return, they will not have much time to fill out and train.

[Cheesesteak]

found myself moving towards the edge of my seat reading this (now) AAR. Keep up the good work!

Curious, once you clear yokohama, how many capital ships do you have available to make runs? Where are your CVs moored?

[HansBolter]

I have dozens of cruiser and destroyer TFs on the Pacific Coast and about six of them on the Sea of Japan coast.

Have 5 BB TFs at Kure. Two consist of 5 and 4 old BBs respectively. Two are the 28 knot Fast BBs and the last is the Iowa's. The two large slow BB TFs have been hitting Osaka and Nagoya daily while the faster TFs are hitting Yokohama. Most of the Cruiser TFs are now hitting Sendai. The Sea of Japan cruiser TFs are hitting Hirosaki/Aomami. Not many targets left.

All of the British BBs are in NoPac, where I also have at least 8 more cruiser TFs.

The British carriers got beat up by winter weather while covering the invasion of the last Kurile island Kunashiri and were repairing at Adak when the Bihoro invasion was ready to go so I split the American Death Star that had covered the invasions of Chiba and Utsonomiya (adjacent to Tokyo) and sent the CVE to NoPac to cover the invasion. One TF of British CVEs was also available.

Since the combination of the DS and the 4Es effectively suppressed the Tokyo/Yokahana air fields I also sent the Fleet carriers to help pummel Hokkaido.

Have been resting my bombers for the past three days except in NoPac and the Tokyo airfield is alive and functioning again giving me something to fight in the air again.

Didn't mention before that on that big day of February 21st wherein so much happened that I also had four ships hit by kamikazes. Even with paltry missions of 2-5 aircraft some always leak through the CAP and get hits. The attrition has been steady, but nowhere near where it would need to be to have a strategic effect.

[Ian R]

Bump.

I was wondering how things were developing in your current game, after testing some of the techniques proposed in this thread?

In a recent siege battle in Shanghai, I had the 18th Cav and 150 RAC regiments - mounted in Valentines with the soft elements stripped away by air transport and warehoused - work on the large IJ stack there for a couple of weeks. On shock orders they knocked down fortification levels, in addition to inflicting mass disablements.

It may not be what the developers intended, but then this is the descendant of a point to point land combat game and the scripted opponent doesn't bother with stacking limits.

[mattj78]

Don't forget japan tried to surrender in may with the terms we we ended up giving them

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That is truly scary, and a good indication of what the real Operation Olympic might have had to deal with at Nagasaki and Fukuoka.
Thanks for taking the time to show us that!

Scarecrows. By the time Olympic would have started the Americans would have been facing scarecrows. Japan was at 1000 calories a day in the summer of '45.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That is truly scary, and a good indication of what the real Operation Olympic might have had to deal with at Nagasaki and Fukuoka.
Thanks for taking the time to show us that!

Scarecrows. By the time Olympic would have started the Americans would have been facing scarecrows. Japan was at 1000 calories a day in the summer of '45.

People can survive on 1000 calories a day. They can still pull a trigger.

Maybe they should have stocked up on flour!

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: mattj78

Don't forget japan tried to surrender in may with the terms we we ended up giving them

What's your point? This thread is about combat calculation mechanisms in a simulation program.

PS - Moltrey might report you for going off topic.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That is truly scary, and a good indication of what the real Operation Olympic might have had to deal with at Nagasaki and Fukuoka.
Thanks for taking the time to show us that!

Scarecrows. By the time Olympic would have started the Americans would have been facing scarecrows. Japan was at 1000 calories a day in the summer of '45.

People can survive on 1000 calories a day. They can still pull a trigger.

Maybe they should have stocked up on flour!

Japan was on civilian food rationing in 1940.

You know that scene towards the end of Band of Brothers - "Say hello to Ford!" - you could could repeat that 10 fold in the case of Imperial Japan. What were they thinking?

Mr Ford

[Naskra]

I had a similar game to Hans. Tokyo with its million-man garrison fell after a four month siege. Allied attacks were spaced about two weeks apart. This kept casualties light. I had over 70k AV in the hex.

[Ian R]

You can perform deliberate assaults repetitively with pure tank units, with only minor unit rotation required. These will inflict heavy casualties at relatively little cost. Shock assaults (by those tank units in isolation) may also reduce fortification levels. Heavy and repeated BB bombardments also help. As discussed previously in this thread, throwing away your combat engineer squads hoping to get fort reductions does not pass cost/benefit analysis.