IJA Fighter Pilots DEF stat training

[awaw]

Current meta is to train IJA pilots in the following sequence:

1. Train Sweep high altitude (increase Air stat, and to a lesser extend Def stat)
2. Train Strafe low altitude (increase Strafe stat (by product) and Def stat (actual targetted stat))
3. Cap “safe” bases t(increase XP)

Now I was thinking, if the Def stat will increase with actual strafing missions, ie, change the sequence to:
1. Train Sweep high altitude
2. Short training period (raise Strafe to 60 which should be a fast 30day)
3. Strafe some out of supply/luck Chinese units to farm XP & Def.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience in the new stage (3)? I did a test run over 3 days and do not see any improvements over doing normal training which consumes lesser supply. Specifically, I do not see any faster increments to Def stat than what I can achieve with a pure training Mission. (Lets just assume damage to target LCU & pilot XP has no weightage in this discussion). Anyone with experiences to the contrary to share?

[Alfred]

Skill ratings are improved either by specific training or combat which involves that specific skill.  Dropping bombs on or firing guns at ground troops do not involve the Def skill.
 
Alfred

[awaw]

Thanks Alfred, never thought of it in this way. What about using bombers on GB missions? Assuming the LCU still has supplies and AA, and fires back, even minimally, the pilot DEF will then go up, I presume?

[Alfred]

No.
 
The DEF trait is only applied in dogfighting.  Bombers never engage in dogfighting.
 
Alfred 

[awaw]

Oh dear..... looks like one cannot really increase DEF of Japan bomber Pilots

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: awaw

Oh dear..... looks like one cannot really increase DEF of Japan bomber Pilots

But if they never engaged in "dogfighting" and that was the only place where defense was used, why would it matter?

I'm not saying I think that's the case, but that's what Alfred just posted.

[Alfred]

Correct.
 
Air combat is divided into two sections, (a) firstly fighter v fighter (dogfighting) and (b) subsequently fighter v bomber (not dogfighting).  Bombers are never targeted by fighters in the dogfighting component.  Fighters and fighter bombers which are being used as a "bomber" jettison their bombload load to enable them to go into dogfighting mode.
 
Bomber pilots do not use their DEF rating.  It is akin to a bomber aircraft maneuver rating not being used when confronted by enemy fighters but instead is used for flak avoidance.
 
Doesn't mean training bomber pilots to increase their DEF skill is pointless as doing so will usually go hand in hand with increasing their EXP level.
 
Alfred  

[awaw]

I was under the impression that def is used when the bombers come under fighter attacks...... so Def for bombers are only used for rolling against flak? Or they are not even used against flak?

Which makes me wonder..... Japan starts with some bomber pilots that have 70+ def (and usually high xp). Does it make sense to convert these to fighter pilots? Granted their a2a training will be slower due to high xp, but at least one skips the “strafe” training part of the routine

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: awaw

I was under the impression that def is used when the bombers come under fighter attacks...... so Def for bombers are only used for rolling against flak? Or they are not even used against flak?

ORIGINAL: Alfred
The DEF trait is only applied in dogfighting

ORIGINAL: awaw

Which makes me wonder..... Japan starts with some bomber pilots that have 70+ def (and usually high xp). Does it make sense to convert these to fighter pilots? Granted their a2a training will be slower due to high xp, but at least one skips the “strafe” training part of the routine

Fighters need Air skill first. Best initial bombers have it at most in the low 40s. It is hard to train skills on an experienced pilot. Easier to have a rookie

[PaxMondo]

bombers do not use defensive air tactics per se … they rely on their gunners. Different concept and alogrithms. IJ has essentially no gunners, allied 4E's become aces in my games. [:D][:D][:D]

[sstevens06]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

... It is hard to train skills on an experienced pilot. Easier to have a rookie

Interesting observation, I have noticed the same. Any links to educational threads would be appreciated.