Leningrad and Moscow Never ending Supply

[Zemke]

Issue 1

I was playing Germany and had Leningrad surrounded, and killed off all units except the one in the City itself and the adjacent port hex. I attacked several times in good weather for several turns and the unit seems to gain back ALL it's strength. It this how it should work?

Next I had a huge pocket around Moscow with 15 +/- Soviet units in the pocket about 8-10 hexes North to South and about 4-6 hexes deep. Moscow was the only supply source, all rail was cut with several units covering those rail lines behind the pocket, in other words it was sealed tight. Yet all the units acted as if they were still in good supply. How can one city supply 10-15 Soviet Army size units? I find this very unrealistic, if this is what is happening.

[Zemke]

Issue 2

Also, I forgot this...I had a Pz Corp that was at 21 strength. I pulled it off the line to rebuild with replacements. It never gained a man, then I moved it to Berlin, gave it a HQ there, and it never seemed to gain back it's strength. What gives with that? If any of the above have been "fixed" in the last two patches, then disregard, if not can anyone tell us what if going on with the supply and replacement systems?

[Flaviusx]

Did you put the panzer korps on priority for replacements? That should do the trick.

[Zemke]

I did, but I have not tested this since the two patches. Also, now with the lasted patch the map scrolling is messed up. It will not move N-S smoothly and the mouse has to be "just right" for the screen to move at all. It was not this way when I bought the game.

It may be my machine, who knows.

[AlvaroSousa]

I readjusted the map scroll because it was interfering with the menu buttons. Guess I did it too much

[AlvaroSousa]

As for supply. Any production center is a supply source

Reinforce. Set priority.

[bjfagan]

I was going to post something about this. So basically there is no longer a point to cutting off cities. This goes against all strategy plans ever used. Historically Leningrad was starving to death and barely survived when the lake froze over. I have had Leningrad cut off and there are no Soviet unit or hexes within 10 or so hexes from Leningrad, hence no possible way to supply it even over a frozen lake.

I would think that in order for cities to supply so units there should be a link between two or three cities or the off map connection for the Soviets. Even if London or Berlin where cut off they could not supply troops for very long.

[OxfordGuy3]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

As for supply. Any production center is a supply source

Reinforce. Set priority.

Surely if completely cut-off from everywhere else, even a production centre should have reduced supply?

[AlvaroSousa]

It's tough to mimic in a computer game without making it gamey. It is on my list.

[Numdydar]

The SC games all had the same issue. In SC:War in Europe, as the Allies I had massive German forces cutoff deep in Russia from all supply back to Germany that I was unable to destroy due to supply by cities. Russian cities I might add lol.

Wrote many threads about it too. Adjustments were made but it made me reluctant to retry the game as I'm not sure the adjustments were enough.

As far as I am concerned this is a major flaw in the game as needs to be fixed before anything is done in the Pacific. Can you imagine Japan trying to take Singapore or Manila with the cities keeping units in full supply?

[Jim D Burns]

A possible simple solution to this is yes give them full supply, but allow no replacements if a supply source city is not able to trace supply to another supply source city. That way units still fight well but attrition over many combats will allow a reduction of the pocket over time thus you still need to earn the victory via combats.

Jim

[toddtreadway]

It seems like cities should provide only a limited number of Supply Stockpile points, so that if a single city was cut off it would provide only a limited number of Supply Stockpile points.

[AlvaroSousa]

Both these last ideas are good.

[mavraamides]

ORIGINAL: bjfagan

I was going to post something about this. So basically there is no longer a point to cutting off cities. This goes against all strategy plans ever used. Historically Leningrad was starving to death and barely survived when the lake froze over. I have had Leningrad cut off and there are no Soviet unit or hexes within 10 or so hexes from Leningrad, hence no possible way to supply it even over a frozen lake.

I would think that in order for cities to supply so units there should be a link between two or three cities or the off map connection for the Soviets. Even if London or Berlin where cut off they could not supply troops for very long.

To be fair, didn't Leningrad hold out for 900 days more or less?

[mavraamides]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

A possible simple solution to this is yes give them full supply, but allow no replacements if a supply source city is not able to trace supply to another supply source city. That way units still fight well but attrition over many combats will allow a reduction of the pocket over time thus you still need to earn the victory via combats.

Jim

I really like this idea. Simple and effective. Supply yes. Reinforcements no. Eventually, they will have to lose.

[Flaviusx]

I would suggest putting whatever units are in there on basic supply, too, so they don't recover lost efficiency at the full rate. The full Stalingrad pocket treatment.

[Flaviusx]

Note: Leningrad was never really fully cut off. Drew supply through Lake Ladoga, or at least enough to do the trick. And, yes, that includes during the winter too, once it froze enough to allow truck columns on the ice. But at the scale this game is at, I suppose this has all been simplified.

[Zemke]

I am glad I posted.

Supply based on one city is too simple and not realistic. One city could not supply trained men to replace loses in one Soviet Army much less many.

[Jim D Burns]

One thing to think about though, is air supply should allow some level of reinforcement. Not full recovery but a way to get at least some replacements in would then make for a nice small air campaign over the pocket area.

Jim

[Patrat]

How about requiring a certain number of production cities having to be connected to each other in order to function fully.

An old wargame that I had years ago had the rule that Germany for instance, had to have 10 production centers connected to each other. If the number of connected production centers fell below 10, Germany went into economic collapse where the production centers could no longer produce and cities could only provide limited supply.

Perhaps some variation of this could be used in this game.

Also I would suggest, if possible, that no city could fully function as a supply source unless its connected to the home country production centers.