Deadly combination: AV & seaplanes

[Christof]

Hi all,

somebody in this forum said that AV's don't launch planes while travelling at sea. At least that's where I think I had this information from...

Now in a current PBEM game I had an enemy transport TF approaching Tulagi and only an AV with floatplanes nearby.
I set the group of Jakes (7 planes) to Naval attack from 1000ft. The whole group made two attacks next day. Scoring 5 hits on the first attack. :p without losing a single plane.

The Jakes were: experience around 65, fatigue around 10, morale around 80

Now that raises two questions:
1.) Does anybody know whether AV's were historically able to launch and retrieve strikes while at high seas?
2.) Were float planes ever used for attacks on surface ships?

Just in case you want to see for yourself - here's the replay:

Air attack on TF at 40,41

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AP Westralia, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Adelong, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
Men lost 33


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 40,41

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Adelong, on fire, heavy damage


Cheers,
Chris

[Oleg Mastruko]

IJN has two classes of AVs (in fact three), not counting CS which are totally different type anyway.

Sanyo (?) Maru and Sanuki (?) Maru are not able to launch while at sea, they are used only as "mobile" platforms for providing seaplane support while in harbor (and are very useful at that).

Kamikawa Maru and Kimikawa Maru (? - something like that) are ABLE to launch their seaplanes on open seas. I guess your AAR includes planes from one of these two ships.

There is third IJN AV class as well - Akatsuki Maru (or something like that) but in UV this class (consisting of single ship) is able to carry just one single aircraft and is virtually useless because of that. IIRC this ship was different than others, and made to support huge seaplanes (Emilys) not much smaller seaplanes like Jakes etc.

CSs are "real" warships (and very useful at that) and of course capable of launching strikes, patrols etc.

I am sure many on these boards are more knowledgable regarding operational history of IJN AVs, but this is how they are modelled in UV...

O.

[Christof]

Thanks for your reply Oleg.
Yes, you are right it was AV Kamikawa.
Now, what's the difference between AV Kamikawa and a CS then?

I tend to load Rufe's on the CS and include them in air combat TF, to provide some additional CAP and (with Jakes) more recon capacity.
If there are two AV with can carry out air ops in open sea hexes, they could also be part of a carrier TF (not sure whether the system lets you include them in air combat TF's...). Maybe they're too slow.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Thanks for your reply Oleg.
Yes, you are right it was AV Kamikawa.
Now, what's the difference between AV Kamikawa and a CS then?

Well, CS is a "real" warship, AVs are just converted merchant vessels. CS is faster, more manouverable, better armed etc. and of course may operate more planes.

I tend to load Rufe's on the CS and include them in air combat TF, to provide some additional CAP and (with Jakes) more recon capacity.
If there are two AV with can carry out air ops in open sea hexes, they could also be part of a carrier TF (not sure whether the system lets you include them in air combat TF's...). Maybe they're too slow.

Many players (myself included) consider IJN CSs to be extremely valuable ships, but they don't shine as Rufe-carriers, but rather as "eyes" of the CV TF. Put some CSs into carrier TF and put their planes (Jakes, Daves etc.) on naval search 100%. Rufes are really not that good for CAP, while better and more accurate spoting may decide the outcome of CV battle (I've seen it on more than one occasion).

Theoretically, you may use Kamikawa AVs in similar manner, but their addition would slower down the speed of carrier TF for 10-some knots, which is bad, and personally I would not recommend it.

O.

[elcid]

The CS ships were supposed to be a "secret weapon." They were intended for operations in waters far from air bases. Before the war, there were virtually no airfields in the central and South Pacific, other than on Japanese islands. [The US had contractors building them when the war began in more than a few places, and enough had been built that a B-17 could fly to the Philippines - barely - if it crossed Japanese waters].

The CS was supposed to be a scouting ship for a kind of raiding warfare that never developed. They were to find targets for cruisers. In a similar way, the Unryu carriers later in the war were to cover and scout for raiders, and they were not fleet carriers as usually reported.

The CS had a second, still more radical and secret mission. She was to participate in the mythical Mahanian "decisive battle." She was not only to scout for the enemy (with half her planes), she was to carry a dozen midget submarines (replacing the rest of her planes). These midgets were to launch just before the battle. The concept was practiced: they could do it at full speed! Some analysts think the idea was sound. The submarines so launched were very fast for their time. [The subs used at Pearl Harbor were a "land attack" variation with less emphasis on speed and a different battery - they were delivered by submarine rather than CS].

The CS had a third secret mission - they were "shadow carriers." They were designed for easy conversion to CVLs and two were actually so converted. Another was planned for conversion but didn't survive to do it.

[Tanaka]

so i take it that these specific av's and cs's can launch any type of plane as well? in other words can you replace the sea planes load them with vals, kates, and zeros and will they launch them as they would sea planes in a strike???

[CapAndGown]

There is third IJN AV class as well - Akatsuki Maru (or something like that) but in UV this class (consisting of single ship) is able to carry just one single aircraft and is virtually useless because of that. IIRC this ship was different than others, and made to support huge seaplanes (Emilys) not much smaller seaplanes like Jakes etc.
O.

Every AV adds 12 support points to a base where it is anchored plus whatever capacity it itself has. Therefore the Akatsuki can support 13 seaplanes when anchored at a base. Of course those planes can not actually be loaded onto the ship but must be stationed "at the base."