Taranto and the future Pacific war

[ncc1701e]

Some questions I can not answer by reading the manual. I apologize if this has already been answered.

Is it possible to attack ships in a port by air (land or carrier based)?
In this case, should I select a naval air mission to attack this port?

[AlvaroSousa]

Port attack - Naturally. You can even attack ships in port with a fleet. But the size of the port is also their naval defense which shoots are incoming fleets. There is actually a strategy to porting fleets correctly.

Air Mission - Yes. Select attack air and viola you can attack ships in port.

[ncc1701e]

Thanks a lot.


While I am at it since I was thinking of Taranto that was a night air mission. I have seen that there is "night move" for fleets except for carriers.
I remember that some famous naval battles around Guadalcanal were done at night but not sure this is done for this.

And I have started to think about night air mission too:
1. Bomber Command was doing night air mission as well
2. In Pacific, there were few air raids on Truk that were night air missions.

And then I have realized we are at strategic level and at two weeks turn. May be too early to speak of night air raids or night naval engagements... [:)]

[AlvaroSousa]

I originally had night missions but it was too.... Not sure how to put it... unused. It also was gamey.

Now the night naval missions are different. They do serve a function. Specifically in the Pacific. But I thought it would be nice to include them here.

As for carriers not being able to do night missions. It's because they don't operate at night.

Naval system took a very long time to think about, develop, and plan. Right now I have one naval issue I have to resolve I discovered before the next patch. More of a functionality issue than anything for the players.

As for Pearl Harbor... I will figure it out.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

As for carriers not being able to do night missions. It's because they don't operate at night.

Well US navy has done a very good job during the war to develop night fighters operating from carriers. The night air raids on Truk, i was referring to, where coming from carriers.

[AlvaroSousa]

Ahh ok

[Essro]

I attempted a Taranto raid and failed.

The British aircraft failed to located the Italian fleet (they were in port) or so the game told me.

It's been my only attempt at a port raid.

Not sure what to make of it. Seems like they searched as if the fleet was at sea.

[incbob]

Okay. I am confused now.
If I want to attack ships in a port is this considered attacking the port.

If I want to attack a port what kind of attack do I choose?

[AlvaroSousa]

If you have air units just put them on naval mission and attack a port with enemy naval units.

If you have a fleet you need to sail 1 hex away from the port to attack it just like you would attack a fleet at sea. You need an operation point left. Technically you could gather a 9 size fleet of battle groups, go to Malta, then in one shot move and attack Taranto. You will take a pounding from the port defenses. Then on the enemy turn they will pound you with air power. I never said it was easy or viable. I just said you could do it.

As for port strikes with carrier groups. It is incredibly hard to sail a carrier fleet to a location and have surprise on the enemy to inflict devastating losses on them. So many factors come into play. So if I allowed 100% of the time a carrier force to strike Taranto. Imagine what would happen.

Every game I would sacrifice every carrier just to sink the Italians. I would happily trade 2 for 1 ships with the Axis forces.

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

If you have air units just put them on naval mission and attack a port with enemy naval units.

If you have a fleet you need to sail 1 hex away from the port to attack it just like you would attack a fleet at sea. You need an operation point left. Technically you could gather a 9 size fleet of battle groups, go to Malta, then in one shot move and attack Taranto. You will take a pounding from the port defenses. Then on the enemy turn they will pound you with air power. I never said it was easy or viable. I just said you could do it.

As for port strikes with carrier groups. It is incredibly hard to sail a carrier fleet to a location and have surprise on the enemy to inflict devastating losses on them. So many factors come into play. So if I allowed 100% of the time a carrier force to strike Taranto. Imagine what would happen.

Every game I would sacrifice every carrier just to sink the Italians. I would happily trade 2 for 1 ships with the Axis forces.

Taranto, Pearl Harbor …. and these are just off the top of my head ….. there are probably other examples

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: scout1

Taranto, Pearl Harbor …. and these are just off the top of my head ….. there are probably other examples

Truk raid (Operation Hailstone) was a complete surprise for Japanese.

Extract from Wikipedia: "Because of these factors, U.S. carrier aircraft achieved total surprise."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hailstone

[AlbertN]

What Alvaro is saying, is that then -every- single turn, the Brits would do a port strike to the Italians.
I am not even sure if fighters react to it - but anyhow it is proved at the moment fighters shot blanks to bombers or so.

Thus to allow a functioning port strike is a problem.

World in Flames has the same, you roll for surprise - both sides do. You may also get the defenders waiting at the read with anti air and interceptors your mission. There are fair chances that there is no combat at all. (Like ships were just out for some training or the like.)

Taranto was a case where the Brits had litterally grand help of espionage to learn even at which depth the anti-torpedo Italian nets dipped down in the water; paired up by Italians not expecting such type of strike.
Truk raid - forgive me - when that happened the USA were pratically unopposed already in their maneuvers unless they were suicidal.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

Truk raid - forgive me - when that happened the USA were pratically unopposed already in their maneuvers unless they were suicidal.

"I can run wild for six months ... after that, I have no expectation of success."

[scout1]

Even Midway (not a port strike) where the US had prior knowledge of the IJN intentions still didn't know where or when they would show up and expended a boatload of recon resources attempting to find them … hence my concern with FOW ….

[Essro]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

If you have air units just put them on naval mission and attack a port with enemy naval units.

If you have a fleet you need to sail 1 hex away from the port to attack it just like you would attack a fleet at sea. You need an operation point left. Technically you could gather a 9 size fleet of battle groups, go to Malta, then in one shot move and attack Taranto. You will take a pounding from the port defenses. Then on the enemy turn they will pound you with air power. I never said it was easy or viable. I just said you could do it.

As for port strikes with carrier groups. It is incredibly hard to sail a carrier fleet to a location and have surprise on the enemy to inflict devastating losses on them. So many factors come into play. So if I allowed 100% of the time a carrier force to strike Taranto. Imagine what would happen.

Every game I would sacrifice every carrier just to sink the Italians. I would happily trade 2 for 1 ships with the Axis forces.

totally agree.

It made me laugh though as I didn't know what was going to happen. But yes, of course, there should be a high failure rate. There are probably more failed raids than successful. I'm noting everyone bringing up examples of spectacular raids but for every one of those how many failed?

Launching off a rickety UK carrier in a Swordfish in choppy seas and and heading straight for the Italian coastline using basic flight navigation, while looking for enemy etc etc

here is a failed raid...I guess more of an interception than a did not find the port but still...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Heligoland_Bight_(1939)


One thing is for sure, I don't envy the task of trying to reconcile all the naval variables that are going to be involved in a PTO design. You got some tough work ahead.

EDIT: I almost forgot to mention--this type of variable result is awesome in solo play and works so well with the FOW aspects of Warplan. This game is a joy solitaire. You really get to examine some interesting situations.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Essro

here is a failed raid...I guess more of an interception than a did not find the port but still...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... ght_(1939)

Thanks for the link, very interesting. Still learning from WW2, incredible...

[AlvaroSousa]

If you look at the list of books I used as a resource for WarPlan you will be very well educated in WW2. Some of the books are taught at the masters level for a degree in military history.

[ncc1701e]

Well, I am not too bad myself. [:)]

[george420]

Night air actions in the Pacific were relatively rare and probably not worth the extra rules necessary. The night actions at Quadalcanal were all gun duels, the two carrier battles being daytime affairs.