Rise of the Reich (no 821Bobo)

[Flaviusx]

Well played.

Unfortunately I think the new patch (once the bugs are ironed out) makes this whole strat a lot harder because the French reinforcements have been rushed into the map presumably to defeat just this.

[Michael T]

Yes you are probably right.

[Michael T]

Robert is back so it's on with the war. Below is what I opened up to. The Allies as expected hit me hard. They attacked the neck of the penetration rather than the head. The target Pz Corp suffered around 10 air attacks from bombers and then was ground assaulted 3 times before giving up the hex.

I also lost another U-Boat. I have to admit my Submarines have failed dismally.

Anyway the map shows where the allies attacked from (yellow arrows) and the Panzer Corps retreat (orange arrow).

This left my remaining Panzer Corp isolated. No bombing of the Reich's factories, all allied air power hammered my Panzers.

[Michael T]

Nov 24th, 1939

I have been truly lucky with the weather. Another "Cold" turn. So we launch a massive counter attack to relieve the isolated Panzer Corp and drive the Allies back. It succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. Smashing several French Corp and gaining all French territory up to the Somme and some. I actually pulled back from the apex of the advance (yellow arrows) as the lead Panzer was very fatigued as it was the Corp who was thrown back by the allies in their turn and would have been prone to another allied attack.

So, very happy with the riposte. Denmark has also surrendered. Losses for the French since the end of my last turn have been 89 ground to 21 German ground. Though around half of the German losses would have been armour.

[Michael T]

Losses to date.

[Michael T]

Reports. The good, the bad and the ugly. You decide which is what...

[Michael T]

8th Dec 1939

The weather turns bad. Not unexpected. Rain. So we push back a couple of weak French Corp. Somewhat surprisingly the French abandon the northern half of the Maginot Line. They must be shortening the line to fill the gaps in front of the Somme.

Meanwhile Bomber Command stage to southern France and hit Linz, just for one damage. The Fuhrer orders retaliatory strikes against England. We hit Leeds and Hull for 5 damage with our Medium bombers. No losses for the Luftwaffe.

[Michael T]

Dec 22, 1939

The weather has me perplexed. Again I get a Cold turn. So onward again. This time we shatter a UK Corp. Nice. We push up close to Paris now.
The RAF Fighter Command were obviously reprimanded about the lack of Home Fighter Defence. So they scurry back to England. The previous raids
by the Luftwaffe on Leeds and Hull worked a treat. Bomber Command still operating from Southern France and hit some oil plants. They lost 2 strength for 2 hits.

Losses since last check. UK(14), Fr(43), Ge(25).

[Michael T]

Total Losses.

[Michael T]

At least now I know the total loss of my sub fleet was not entirely due to my incompetence. Bug found and fixed in the next patch. Maybe still some time to rebuild the subs and have some effect... have to think on it.

[Flaviusx]

Even when they fix this I'm skeptical of the value of the subs.

There is an opportunity cost issue here. You need to make a heavy investment in 1940 to build up a right proper sub fleet that stands any chance of stressing the allied merchant marine.

This is at the same exact time you need to build a proper Barbarossa army and luftwaffe. I don't see how you can do it all. There's not enough butter to cover this bread.

If you wait until later to build subs, allied AI tech kicks in. 43+ escorts all by themselves will shred subs, and very cost effectively too. You don't even need to screw around with specialized antisub air at that point.

[Flaviusx]

The most I can say for subs at this point is that it forces the allies to divert a lot of production to address them, but even so, I remain skeptical of their value. You can buy a half dozen escorts for the price of 1 sub. This is a trade off I will take any day as the allied player, while maxing out my convoy research. You have so many convoys that you can afford to lose well over 100 of them before this becomes an issue.

[Michael T]

I am inclined to agree. U-Boat war seems to need work from the devs. The cost of Merchant ships V the cost of subs is not helpful too. Subs cost too much OR the escorts/merchants need to go up.

[Flaviusx]

As it presently stands possibly the best use of subs is to interdict lend lease to Russia and forget about the Atlantic itself. But this is a game where lend lease to Russia is not quite so important as in others. The Soviets can even get by without it if need be. The Soviet war economy in this game is very substantial on its own and you can even manage it in such a way as to build up a nest egg of production for the war itself. I have no complaints about this, bear in mind. I think this is right. Too many games exaggerate the importance of Soviet lend lease.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
You have so many convoys that you can afford to lose well over 100 of them before this becomes an issue.

You're forgetting lend lease. It takes a lot of convoys to lend a decent amount of production to the Soviets and to the Brits from the US. Attack the line to Murmansk and you'll sink tons of stuff as its so close to Norwegian ports.

Jim

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am inclined to agree. U-Boat war seems to need work from the devs. The cost of Merchant ships V the cost of subs is not helpful too. Subs cost too much OR the escorts/merchants need to go up.

Escorts are 40 each individual ship. How many subs per group? Five or more I think, so they are cheaper than escorts and they sink a lot of escorts in the early game. Once they fix raiding mode I think subs will be a nightmare until tech starts to ease the pain.

Jim

[Michael T]

The Merchant ships cost 100 for 10. So 10 each. So a U-Boat needs to sink them at a ratio of 4:1 to break even (well slightly in front if you count the 4 resource points sunk). Of the few U-boat v Convoy battles I have seen I would say 2:1 is the status quo.

I am willing to try them again in future games with the new patch but as for this game my fleet is gone all bar one solitary factor.

BTW a sub factor costs 40. Same as an escort. And subs do not kill escorts at a favourable ratio.

[gwgardner]

Has anyone reported on subs and ASW later in the war, with researched upgrades to both?

[Flaviusx]

I'm reporting now: they will trash your subs. All by themselves. Unless this somehow changes in PBEM.

[Michael T]

5th Jan, 1940

A quick update. In the allied turn he pounded a INF Corp with many air attacks then he hit it with 3 or 4 ground assaults. I had the unit on HOLD so it lost many steps and then finally shattered. I definitely came off second best in that battle. The weather has finally turned to Snow. I tried a few attacks but none succeeded. My troops are fatigued. Nothing much else to report for that turn. Will post a map next turn.