piecemeal attacks on Benelux

[gwgardner]

In my PBEM game I just attacked Luxembourg - because I could, without ramifications. In many games, I've seen the Netherlands attacked for the same reason, just to get it out of the way, to reposition for a later attack in Belgium.

I'd like to see a change whereby such attacks have a great chance of triggering Belgium and/or Netherlands joining the Allies immediately, and going to war, thus allowing the UK and France an opportunity to advance.

[821Bobo]

This has been already questioned few times. And Allies really need something to counter it(like for every DOW there will be boost in industry or diplomacy). This is not just about Benelux. In my current PBEM game my opponent is conquering whole Europe and I can just watch. Summer 40. It is ridiculous. Minors have no defense capacity, usually done in 1 turn. UK starts with depleted units and half(!?) of the German industrial capacity, there should be parity in industry.

[AlbertN]

UK is quite fine as it is - actually it produces a fuckton considering they won't have to invest anything in convoys and escorts and ships - something they actually built the whole war across.
Germany is so skint that can hardly churn out a single Uboot (1 Uboot = 1 Infantry Corp), and that Uboots are totally ineffective. Even without the bug that sets them to be sank, they inflict minimal damage to the convoys.

And in WarPlan conquest is hardly rewarding. Logistic value won't change - so you're just adding beaches to defend later on as Axis - for a relative return (since as said it does not boost Manpower nor Logistic, only production points. So at some point ... err ... assuming everything is good and you are logistic capped, going to spam AA and trucks?)

Let the Axis conquer half Europe. Like, example, Portugal. Add 2 ports to your 'to defend list', gain 1.3 PP per turn with the multiplier let's make it 1.5 PP per turn. Basic '39 division costs 60 (before any upgrade), so in 40 turns you pay back the amount of cash you need to actually defend one of the 2 ports. Let them conquer around and smile! (Henceforth I feel WarPlan needs to reward conquest -more-!)

If you want -that- kind of system, World in Flames is the way to go. Each declaration of war and a few other actions affect USA and alter their entry to war. (On both ends. So if UK DoW's Iraq to seize the oil rigs, USA may kick in later.) It has a whole system of 'options' that require an amount of USA 'points' to be played (USA at start produces little, is limited in what produces, etc - as you ramp up with the points it's not just how much you produce but options are to send planes to China, to add ships to patrol the East Coast / Central Atlantic before to be at war and having them fight if convoys are attacked, embargo oil to Japan, the various lend leases, etc, etc).
That's is an excellent system - and the value of the 'points' USA gains is partly random but affected by the current year.

[AlvaroSousa]

The minor countries historically had no chance vs Germany. They didn't have the weapons or supply.

Belgium refused to cooperate despite the evil,staring them in the face.

Germany never had enough to build what they wanted.

Balancing takes time.

There have been various reports on game play. This all depends on skill levels. If you are a novice strategist vs another novice stratagist you might feel one way about the game. A PBEM game between 2 experienced players is a thinking man's game or resources, logistics and positioning that isn't seen on the surface so obviously.

Been playing War games for a long time myself. I have seen it all.

Keep on mind warplan is a wargame closer to WitE than SC3. So it won't have that feel good feeling of lovely pop ups. It's gritty, full of anxiety and desperation. But it will make you think.

PBEM is the best way to play

[821Bobo]

I am not saying that Germany should be nerfed. I am saying that UK production should be comparable to German!

Alvaro, it seems no one understand what I am complaining about. It is not Axis capabilities but the impotence of Allies when Axis go ahistorical and ahead of history and that is not fun.
Now in my game Turkey was invaded, the army is joke and basically present to Axis. There must be consequences if Axis decides to declare war on basically every one even potential allies.

[AlbertN]

That Turkey may be stronger I actually agree with. Or simply IF Turkey is declared war on, Russia gains a % of production to man the Caucasus or so too.

More so than Greece or Benelux troops.

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

That Turkey may be stronger I actually agree with. Or simply IF Turkey is declared war on, Russia gains a % of production to man the Caucasus or so too.

More so than Greece or Benelux troops.

Something like this. More production for USA and Soviets for Axis DOWs.
Also Yugoslavia should be more resilient and not surrender after Belgrade is lost.

[Flaviusx]

The Netherlands is a total gimme and as a German I would attack it early every time. There is simply no cost to doing this. Likewise Luxembourg.

I am definitely now dissuaded from attacking Belgium early, though, so there is that.

The Turkish army is severely underpowered, imo. It comes in practically in cadre form. It will never have the necessary replacements to reinforce to full. Not even if you give it production; the Turkish manpower pools is about good enough to fill out half its units. This is not a fighting army. It is barely good enough for partisan duty. Needs fixing.

I deliberately chose not to take advantage of this in my PBEM because I think it is cheese and want to have a good fun game with my allied opponent. In fact I would regard this as a house rule in any PBEM game I chose to play in. Otherwise the Germans are going to go after Turkey every time, it is far too attractive a proposition.

As for Yugoslavia, it is fine, except that perhaps it needs to have partisan on map units like the Soviets do, to force a larger garrison in it.

Yugoslavia can actually put up a good fight if it isn't taken down quickly.

[AlvaroSousa]

Turkey has been changed in the next patch. I corrected a rail hex at Istanbul. Not supposed to be there. So that will limit supply. Turkey also has scorched earth.

I'll take a look again at Turkish setup to make sure it is accurate.

[AlvaroSousa]

I did some changes in 1.00.03 for Neth/Belg. Let's see how that takes shape. If it still gets some ubermench Germany busting through in 1939 then we can see about activation.

There are ways for the Allies help in this situation. You guys are going to make me play a game vs myself to test this.

[AlbertN]

I don't see a problem with the Axis getting Benelux in '39, especially as otherwise France is conquered in July if not August '40.
And as someone pointed out in an AAR, France does not need Brits on the spot either so...