custom German OOB

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 3:46 pm

It will not have any specific problems with v6.1, as this was only a change in the mech.exe (battle routines, e.g.), not in the OOBs.
The existing problems with scenarios will remain.
Problems with scenarios occur, when a unit was changed to a different type in the custom OOB. This might be a MG displaying as normal infantry or Minenraeumpanzer III not being there at all. To avoid these problems, when playing scenarios with German troops involved, best is to load the scenario in the editor and check the German troops, if they're correct. In case you spot a unit that looks wrong, simply use the "change unit to different type" button and change it to the type it should be (if you don't want to peek at a scenario before playing it, ask a friend to check it).
I cannot say much about the MC. There should be the same problems with it like with the scenarios. Because it is a preset campaign and the forces are based on the original OOB, it's best to stick with that one for the MC.
Maybe someone has already tried to play it with the custom OOB and can tell you more...

hope, that helps...

Mai Thai · Post by **Mai Thai** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:11 pm

To Panzer Leo

I downloaded your edited OOB and found it very good and playing with it in a dedicated installation of spwaw.
I'm sorry that in another post i didn't recognize you as the author of this greatfull OOB.
I'm playing a long generated campaign and until now i'm satisfied with your changes, not only OOB but also pics and sounds.
Having read other post on this subject i have nothing more to say than hoping you will keep on your precious job.
Thanks a lot. (Vielen Dank)
Bye

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:26 pm

Note that changing 50mm mortars to "mortar" class from "lt mortar" gives them significant added capability. "Lt mortar" class can only be directed by teh platoon x0, as mortars they are on the "battle net" and can be targeted by anyone...since they typically did not have a radio operator this is a great advantage...

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:21 pm

Thanks, Mai Thai !

Good comment, Paul - I will include it in my debugged version !
Then there will be a 50mm as lt Mortar, as it's supposed to be...
I simply overlooked the little fellow in the first... :rolleyes:

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:29 pm

Actually this "feature" seems to have bitten the dust - all mortars work the same now...

Good work!

RockinHarry · Post by **RockinHarry** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:54 am

Originally posted by Panzer Leo:
Making them special forces would give the Gebirgsjaeger some features, I think they shouldn't have (intrude in the rear). They were not trained and used in this manner. ... Unless there is a class of "mountain troops", there's not much to do about the cliff climbing

Right,..the "special forces" ability is meant for cliff climbing only of course and it´s left to the player NOT to use them to infiltrate.

Well,...I´m just preparing a Caucasus 1942 scenario, where just this cliff climbing ability is needed. Map has steep mountainous terrain with up to ten levels/slopes. (Similar to SP2WW2). Don´t think it´s possible? Wait...

And...ski units are only useful, if you have "snow" on your map. Otherwise you can simply use renamed infantry (SS for elite).

_________
Harry

gators · Post by **gators** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:47 am

I've posted about Gebirgsjager before, and got very few responses. I sincerely think its a genuine oversight that they're not included. That and spotter planes are two features I hope CL will surely have.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 4:41 am

Sorry but spotter planes do NOT belong in a tactical game...How on earth do they communicate with a tank to tell it to shoot at some tank somewhere???

REAL spotter planes were used to spot operational heavy arty fires behind the lines and operational planning.

To use them like some sattelite in Patriot Games is one of the gameyest abuses ever!

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 5:26 am

Yep, agree with the spotters shouldn't be in there...I must confess, I used them back in the old days of SPWW2 quite often and it was really fun, but when thinking of the realism, my stomach turns...

The thing with the Gebirgsjaeger is really a problem. When you make them special forces, they will be a cheap variation of the Spaeh/Sabot grp. If you make them cost the same, they're to expensive to use as normal fighting force, but they actually were one.
As I said before, the only thing that really helps is say:

please,please,please Paul, give us the mountain infantry type with cliff climbing, but no infiltration

rich12545 · Post by **rich12545** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:36 am

After reading this forum, I downloaded your oob. Then read the comments.

I pretty much just play scenarios, not campaigns. Does that mean I would be wise not to use this?

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:52 am

Hi rich !

The main idea behind the OOB was to create a more German atmosphere, flavour with the real German designations and b/w pics.
If this is a thing you do not pay much attention to, you'll probably find it to uncomfortable to adjust scenarios (although it is not a really a big deal).
In this case, you'll be best advised with not using it.
If you think "the way how it looks and feels" in the game is important, check it out...
I always liked to some sort of identify with the troops I played and original designations are very helpfull with that. When playing Italians e.g. I always preferred having squads like "Bersaglieri", not "IT Elite Inf sqd", but it's all about what you prefer...

anyway, have fun...

gators · Post by **gators** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:51 pm

Then why have spotters at all?

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 3:59 pm

To direct arty fire. That's the way it's supposed to be - and not to give the Inf unit a hint, that there's a bad enemy waiting behind the next bushes, like you will do with a spotter plane.

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 4:10 pm

Originally posted by Panzer Leo:

The thing with the Gebirgsjaeger is really a problem. When you make them special forces, they will be a cheap variation of the Spaeh/Sabot grp. If you make them cost the same, they're to expensive to use as normal fighting force, but they actually were one.
As I said before, the only thing that really helps is say:

please,please,please Paul, give us the mountain infantry type with cliff climbing, but no infiltration

I use FJs should be about the same as far as equipment, experiance, and moral goes. Assign slightly heavier support weapons, light howitzers, heavy MGs, Heavy Mortars, mules, etc.

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: pbear ]

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 6:08 pm

COmbat leader will have teh ability for OOB designers to create their own unit classes, so you can check boxes fo rteh capabilities you want a class of units to have, 'Unit can climb' is distinct from 'unit can infiltrate'.

We found that be the ultimate solution - but it has to wait for CL/CA.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:51 pm

Originally posted by Panzer Leo:
Fuesilier formations is a good thought. They could easily be made up of existing units by gathering them in a formation. I will keep this in mind
The Luftwaffe Feldeinheiten were left out intentionally, 'cause they would need their own unit(s) (and slots are precious, as you know) and they only appeared in relevant numbers in 42/43 (if my mind doesn't let me down on this). So I think the FJs gotta represent the Luftwaffe on the ground

that´s not excatly right. there were two types pf LW troops:

1. the falschirmjäger that you mentioned. they were good till elite troops with good weapons and officers. but later in the war not anymore used in their primary role,instead as a good infantry troops.

2. the luftwaffe divisions which were colected by this fool h.goering who wants to give hitler a "present" from his luftwaffe as the war get´s worse for germany. they consist of airbase personal and such which were not used anymore in this role, they were of course not proper trained for infantry fighting and had no good weapons. so they had no good fighting rating. but the stupid german leaders as hitler,goering and others believed they could stand up to regular infantry...that was a big mistake as reality shows. the german front commanders did know that,but they had no other troops to fight with at the late stage of war. they must take what they get.

gators · Post by **gators** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 8:31 pm

Presumably spotters whether on the ground or in the air would tell you as a general rule that there are bad guys there, I know it would be a routinely kind thing to do.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:25 pm

Watch the Battle of the Battle - Henry Fonda shows what spotter planes were used for...that and directing artillery places where ground pounders couldn't get.

How would this "telling you" be accomplished...unfortunately the games Borg telepathy doesn't work in real life?

WW2 era radios only had one - or maybe a handful of freqs, and the spotter (who worked for the Division or Corps), would have no way to communicate the info of what was going on as they happened to pass the front (at 3-5k ft to avoid small fire) ontheir way to do their REAL mission, which is operational not tactical.

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:32 pm

Originally posted by freyburg:
Presumably spotters whether on the ground or in the air would tell you as a general rule that there are bad guys there, I know it would be a routinely kind thing to do.

So you think it sounds realistic, that a pilot of a Fieseler Storch picks up his radio, asks the divisional staff to connect him down to Reg, then Bat, then Comp, then Plat to finally get Unteroffizier Hintermayer and tell him a enemy rifle squad is waiting 100 yards away in an ambush ???
Or do you mean the pilot is asking the General to talk to Hintermayer ?

Agree with the Luftwaffe units, but they still need separate units to display them - makes no sense to waste a slot for such an unimportant feature. Second line troops consisting of gathered different troops are represented by the Volksgrenadier units. Rename them to Luftwaffenfeldeinheit and you got it...

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:38 pm

If the germans get Gerbigsjaeger, then the US should get Mountain troops. US had the 10th mountain in Italy (wasn't that Bob Doles old outfit). I know many of the classic rock climbs in Colorado were put up in the early days of WWII, when 10th mountain cadre were out playing. Some of the old pitons are still around IIRC.