So what's happening with the new patch?

[DD696]

Tamas was hanging around here yesterday but did not have any spare words.

So, what's happening with the new patch?

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: DD696

Tamas was hanging around here yesterday but did not have any spare words.

So, what's happening with the new patch?

Hanging around 'here'? Tamas has nothing to do with this game now. Erik Rutkins was hanging around 'here' too as were many Slitherine/Matrix staff.

[DD696]

He was the only "official" I saw on this forum, but then I do not spend every waking and sleeping moment observing who is logged in. I rarely log in, but this is my home page and I check frequently and am rarely logged in. To my knowledge, there has been no official word that Tamas is not involved with the game, only a rumor. Which rumors should we believe? Should we believe a rumor that a new patch is coming? Should we believe a rumor that someone new from Slitherine is in charge? Should we discount all rumors?.

[sPzAbt653]

Should we believe a rumor that someone new from Slitherine is in charge?

To be clear, TOAW has a laison. Nobody from Slitherine or Matrix is 'in charge' of TOAW.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: DD696

He was the only "official" I saw on this forum, but then I do not spend every waking and sleeping moment observing who is logged in. I rarely log in, but this is my home page and I check frequently and am rarely logged in. To my knowledge, there has been no official word that Tamas is not involved with the game, only a rumor. Which rumors should we believe? Should we believe a rumor that a new patch is coming? Should we believe a rumor that someone new from Slitherine is in charge? Should we discount all rumors?.

Tamas, the most recent "leader" was replaced by a Bart somebody and so now maybe something will happen.

Larry's post was definitive.

If you open the game and click on About you'll see Matrix Publishing holds the copyright. Then as the scrolling starts you will see Trickysoft which is Ralph Tricky who is the developer. But, since it says Matrix is the copyright holder it should be clear as to who really owns the game. So, last I heard Matrix bought the rights and they are in charge but I'll be darned if I know how the whole thing is set up because they seem quite powerless to do anything about how development is going.

[DD696]

OK. My next question is "Who is the designated speaker for TOAW in an official capacity for the ongoing support of the game"?

[terry1040]

Do I sense a certain tension and negative swing in the discussion here?

Matrixgames has supported this game for more than 10 years.
Development is certainly stopped, but it has turned more into a labor of love.
So if there is a patch in the works (and it looks like it is), it might well take 1-2-3 years to appear.
We have seen this with so many other games (EDBTR comes across my mind).
And that is all totally fine with me.

Let us be thankful, that such an old source code and related software development is still supported.
They certainly do not make any extra money on this, so I appreciate any effort and support from their side.

Just my 2 cents.
Terry

[BigDuke66]

This game appeared 2 years ago and in my opinion is still in the "hot phase" where it should be tightly supported, that means patches AND communication.

Besides this, the tension is the bad feeling that some of us could make the same experience as in TOAWIII where vital things took years to be fixed.
The road of TOAWIII was rather bad, first it wasn't so different from the CoW edition so that community git split, then each patch took much longer then is predecessor with the last. It is just damaging to the community but few other games depend so much on it like TOAW.
Where do all the scenarios come from? From a breathing & living community and it has to be well looked after to keep it alive. Especially as we still have broken scenario because of the way counters are handled now, alone this needs the designers to come back and fix it, but I doubt this will happen if the community starts declining again.

So were are back at the point:
- Patches on a regular base at least once a year
- Steady communication of what is worked on, what is fixed, what new stuff comes along, etc.
That all isn't too much for a game just 2 years old

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: terry1040
They certainly do not make any extra money on this, so I appreciate any effort and support from their side.

I have to agree with BigDuke; There has been what, one patch since the game was released two years ago, despite a couple of major issues (air interdiction and shore guns), and a host of smaller ones?

As to "not making any extra money on this", I have bought this game four times in the last twenty years, never with any kind of discount for owners of the previous edition. Moreover, the changes in that time have been incremental and it is rather hard to believe that they have squeezed money from players to buy the game four times despite the fact that the game has changed so little. Are we supposed to wait (and pay for) TOAW V to get the next patch?

Finally, to contrast this game with another 20 year old game system, look at Tiller's games. Many of his games are also twenty years old, and have been patched regularly over the years.
Just in the last couple of years many of them have received free and significant upgrades (not even bugs, as here, but upgrading graphics, etc).

[Simon Edmonds]

When TOAW IV came out I noted in the various discussions that a lot of people considered it to be more of an update to TOAW III than a generational change as happened when TOAW III came out. In my humble opinion I think that this may be indicative of the developers running out of creative ideas with it. Or running out of steam. Or running out of interest. Any of those will work. On the other hand those of us who play the game are still going strong.
If there is a change of hierarchy or ownership then maybe now is the time for a real generational change to the game. Convert it to modern software. Bring in hexside features (such as lakes that block a hexside instead of the whole hex). Bring in more terrain types (a major part of Russia is wooded swamp) Have the option of using either hexagonal orientation (the current one isn't optimal for the eastern front) Have the option of either having rivers in the hex or on the hexside.(In the hex for narrow valleys; On the hexside for open ground.
Okay so the scenarios wont be transferable from IV to V. Think of the fun we can have converting them. It is currently fairly difficult to find a scenario idea that hasn't been done before. This will effectively wipe the slate clean and bring new people to the game.
Not saying I'm right. Not saying I'm wrong. Just saying...

[terry1040]

I think it is fair to say, that the lifespan of the game concept has peaked.

I personally do not expect any major changes / developments anymore.
OTH, I appreciate small improvements that add to the fun playing it.
The transition from TOAWIII to TOAWIV was actually already much more then I ever expected.

I too have invested already 4x (actually 5x considering Red Lightning) into the system and I do not regret this at all.
My point is rather easy: I am patient and I understand that there are challenges in providing a new patch.
Fine with me, take your time.

But of course I accept that your mileage may vary. Just keep the discussion nice and friendly. [:)]

Cheers
Terry

[John T_MatrixForum]

I accept that this is by and large a one mans hobby, not a commercial venture.
and I understand some of the problems to both code for fun and maintain an income at the same time.

But there are two advice I would like to share

1. Fixing bugs might not be as fun as creating new functionality and might need more time,
but I prefer patches of bugs at regular intervals before a mix of new features with bugs and a few fixes.
With a decent software versioning tool, you could keep one bugfix and one further development branch open at the same time and small patches will show the crowd that something is happening.
(given the leaks of .40-sh playtester releases, while we paying guests has to do with .21 )

2. The lack of communication, however imperfect, is preferable than just silence.

Personally I would understand if I had to pay for new functionality releases or monthly subscription.
wargaming is still a cheap hobby.

Right now, I just start wondering if this game is discontinued?

Cheers

[Lobster]

Hardly discontinued since people are actively working on new features such as hierarchy.

[DD696]

The game is not discontinued as they are still selling it.

The issue is whether or not the game is still supported by way of bug fixes and such. It is quite obvious that this support is minimal and that fixes that quashed bugs up to a year ago have not found their way into the hands of the ones that buy this game.

Perhaps when the development of this game was solidified an agreement was made between developer and Slitherine that there would only be x number of patches made in support of the release. I don't know, but the lack of support and the lack of communication seems to tell it all. Personally I expect one more patch and then the end of this type of support.

[pz501]

I don't think the game is discontinued either, but support is pretty much absent when it comes to bug fixes and patches. Communication is about non-existent when it comes to the main developer (Ralph) and Matrix themselves. These are the people who need to step up and keep the game alive, and interest high. No promises need to be made, just try to keep people informed every now and then.

Priority should be bug fixes first and foremost, and then add new things (like hierarchy - which I'd personally welcome). I don't know what the priority is right now, but if it's adding new things at the expense of fixing problems, that would be like adding fancy wheel covers to a car that has a flat tire.

At the rate things are going now I think the game is in danger of becoming the the sole interest and hobby of a hand full of play testers and people with some access to the code.

[Blond_Knight]

Ive been trying to get in as a low level coder for several months, while teaching myself C++.

Its hard work I tell ya, hard work!
I made more headway on the letter I sent the Govt asking to see the aliens, at least they came to my house!
I get no respect I tell ya, no respect.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

I made more headway on the letter I sent the Govt asking to see the aliens, at least they came to my house!

The government or the aliens? [X(]

[Shadrach]

ORIGINAL: Lobster
The government or the aliens? [X(]

Both. The government in black suits and sunglasses, the "aliens" in white coats [8D]
👽🛸

[StuccoFresco]

What is that "hierarchy" feature?

[DD696]

Today the latest version of Fire in the East, 1.8, was released. According to the briefing for this new version, it was tested and is to be played using the latest beta version of TOAW. So now we have the biggest scenario of TOAW released to the unruly rabble of paying customers who cannot play it because they are not beta testers.

Is there something wrong with this picture?

Just asking...