War in the East Open Beta Update 1.12.02

[Zemke]

I did not "win" early, not even sure it would have been a win, rather I was outside Berlin in June/July 1945, well past the historical fall. Frankly, more than likely would have been a minor loss, but I do not know because my opponent stopped sending turns back, which really sucks. I want/wanted (whichever the case may be) to continue regardless of what the game results were just to finish a Human vs Human game for once.

I loved playing the Russians, and Doc was a huge help with sound advice. The Soviet Army truly becomes a monster-sized force, I think by 1945 I have/had 8-9 million men. Unless this patch has created a "smarter" German AI, it is no fun to play the Russians against the computer, and when you do get a Human player, most quit after the "fun" rampage of 41 or 42. As things get worse for Germany the turn rate gets slower and slower, till one day no more German turns.

[thedoctorking]

Yeah, turn 56 men in units 6.11 million, total TOE 7.9 million. So losing those population centers hasn't hurt too much. Per turn manpower production is 100k and change. We actually have a small stockpile of manpower because of armaments shortage - the Axis took a bunch of armaments factories in the Barbarossa campaign. I only have 236 right now.

[Bitburger]

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[Phoenix100]

Sorry to ask, but is this patch cumulative - can I just apply it over the base install? Thanks.

[Cavalry Corp]

For your information and I do not know if it's a result of the patch but in my game of crisis on the Danube scenario there are no German reinforcements arriving. And also note units are re-spawning should they? This particularly affects the Hungarians? Please advise.

[RedJohn]

Observations after a few games:

1. Screw HQ shattering - obscenely obnoxious.
2. Soviet airforce is much stronger than what I've experienced before.
3. Forts are, of course, way way harder to crack - but absolutely still possible fairly easily if you prepare right. I took Odessa on turn 7 in one game, with over 10,000 CV being stacked into the first battle and destroying all 4 fort levels by the end of it.
4. Units seem to surrender/shatter randomly. Still not sure why. Happens to both Germans and Soviets, but more often the Soviets.

[thedoctorking]

I like HQ shattering. It is especially nice to be able to unload those grossly over-full fronts in the early going.

[Colbert]

ORIGINAL: Phoenix100

Sorry to ask, but is this patch cumulative - can I just apply it over the base install? Thanks.

I certainly just applied it over the base install and worked great.

[Ridgeway]

Two issues with shattering --

1) It dramatically increases the number of partisans

2) Any attached SUs get nuked.

I am not sure if these results are good or bad for the game overall -- they are just different from how it has played previously.

[thedoctorking]

I always thought it was odd that your HQ would get overrun back in a pocket somewhere in Belarus and would just automatically reappear around Smolensk or Pskov with its artillery still attached. There would have been losses, but the basic unit would still be there and ready to accept new hardware. I thought this was historically questionable and maybe too good a deal for the Soviets. There are a lot of things that 12.02 changes that help the USSR, allowing the starting SU to get destroyed is something that counterbalances that.

[morvael]

"Random" surrenders are caused by a bug which makes the game think units are isolated when more than 25 hexes from rail. It will be gone in the next patch. Also, "Rail repair units, airbases, HQs, and support units attached to them will not shatter in combat when forced to relocate from hex in which the battle occured." in the next patch. The worst that can happen to them is becoming isolated, as they can be mopped up on the next enemy turn if there will be no place to retreat to, but I think it's fair. Units should not teleport from a pocket. The number of lost HQs decreased a lot in AI vs AI tests, for players there will be more, as humans are better at encircling than AI.

[morvael]

Rebalancing partisans will have to wait, I don't want to delay the patch further. Especially AI has serious trouble with how many there are (even though AI isn't required to garrison cities).
With 0-1 railway system partisans are very hard to balance. Either there is not enough of them and they are just a nuisance, or there are too many and they break the supply system completely (especially in 1941, when that single rail line going to the front gets disrupted). Perhaps their effect should be changed to randomly destroying supplies at cities, HQs and units in range. That way their impact could be meaningful, yet not crippling, and scale well.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: morvael
Perhaps their effect should be changed to randomly destroying supplies at cities, HQs and units in range. That way their impact could be meaningful, yet not crippling, and scale well.

I have some sympathy with this as partisans in WitE1 has been a game of extremes. Either your whole army is in peril or nothing? Game development generally seems to be having more continuums rather than polar extremes. I think WitW/E2 went down this route too? Perhaps partisans could also act like interdiction occasionally reducing movement points of nearby enemy units (blowing up bridges, raids on convoys etc.)

It is worth considering the knock on impact on rail repair plans though. If you no longer have to worry about blown rail lines, you do not have to plan for redundant loops in the rail network. So you can look for even more efficient supply from rail repair dedicated more to an eastward direction. So the knock on effects should be considered too.

[morvael]

Maybe Axis rail modifier could be changed to 50% + % of repaired rail hexes in occupied Soviet territory/2. That would make every line important. And maybe partisans could just affect this modifier rather than attacking lines directly. A lot of possible improvements is impossible with current binary but unlimited rail supply model. We wait for WitE2 😀

[janh]

ORIGINAL: morvael

Maybe Axis rail modifier could be changed to 50% + % of repaired rail hexes in occupied Soviet territory/2. That would make every line important. And maybe partisans could just affect this modifier rather than attacking lines directly. A lot of possible improvements is impossible with current binary but unlimited rail supply model. We wait for WitE2 😀

I think there would be semi-elegant ways (besides a proper solutions as expected in WitE2) to get rid of this
- binary rail transport behavior
- unlimited transport capacity
- binary impact of partisans.

They key would be to reinterpret the rail transport threshold, i.e. not making 100% = functional and <100% dysfunctional.
If you rather put some chosen threshold, i.e. 80% (as interpretation of single line repaired) at which supplies begin to flow, you had a margin to 100% that should repair further only very slowly with 100% meaning full supply flow (aka double tracks completely repaired with signal installations etc. for efficient traffic). Lots of options there, but certainly difficult to rebalance.

c.f.
fb.asp?m=4694523

[juv95hrn]

What is the easiest way to return to the previous version of the game? reinstall or is there and update exe for the non beta version somewhere?

EDIT:
I cant uninstall from steam menu.

[thedoctorking]

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn

What is the easiest way to return to the previous version of the game? reinstall or is there and update exe for the non beta version somewhere?

EDIT:
I cant uninstall from steam menu.

In Steam, right-click the game in your library menu, go to properties, and opt out of beta. It will immediately re-install the 1.11.03 latest stable version. If you have installed map mods, etc., they should stay installed.

[uw06670]

[/quote]

If you rather put some chosen threshold, i.e. 80% (as interpretation of single line repaired) at which supplies begin to flow,

Sounds like a great idea. But probably not so simple to implement as the game has been on/off since the beginning. Unintended consequences I mean.

[56ajax]

btw has anyone come across the 'continuous click' bug...as in when you select a unit there is a system generated click....but it doesn't stop...ie click click click.....unfortunately can't systematically reproduce...

[Naughteous Maximus]

Not liking this new patch. When can we expect 1.12.03?