question for Kull

[coachi]

6kay - newbie here using your spreadsheet. I've spent three nights about two hours setting up and I'm halfway through China. (haven't played yet.)

two questions - do you go through this entire first turn set up very game?

And

Should it take this long? I'm halfway through chona

Admittingly no good with with geopgraphy.

Looking forward to firt turn.
PS- saw a youtube video wher guy took 9 hours setting up first turn and another with 9=8

[HansBolter]

It usually takes me about 6 hours, but I am practiced at it.

Like many of the vets here who have been playing since release, and playing the original WITP before that and Uncommon Valor before that, I have tens of thousands of game turns under my belt and quite a few 'first turns'.

For me, I try to start a new game early on a Saturday morning. One where I am eschewing all chores and housework to attend only to the game so I can not only get through the first turn orders, but also execute a couple of turns.

[Anachro]

Kull's sheets are a good learning tool, but I wouldn't take them as gospel. Not all the actions in it are necessary, certainly not on turn 1. Keep in mind, as well, that many of the actions are for a very specific strategy and might not be reflective of your own goals and targets. As always, as you learn the game, you can do away with Kull's sheets arnd start doing the first turn ad hoc on your own, cutting out a lot of extraneous stuff.

That said, the slowest thing about using Kull's sheets is constantly having to go back and forth between them in the game. Once you feel comfortable not using them, things go a lot faster when you can just focus on the game itself.

[Kull]

It usually takes me 2-3 8 hour days as well. The payoff is that the next few days go a lot faster since all your primary activities are in motion. But yes, the geography thing for a new player is yet another part of the learning curve, since you just don't know where everything is yet (although again, you are learning). If you have a very wide screen or high resolution monitor (or better yet 2 monitors), having the game in one window and the spreadsheet right next to it speeds things up significantly.

The most important thing about this process is not how long it takes, but the sheer repetition which inevitably teaches you all the unsexy but absolutely necessary game mechanics: Forming TFs, Loading/unloading supplies/troops/fuel, setting up search patterns, submarine patrol ops, the multitude of different air missions, the various movement types for LCUs, etc, etc.

By Day 3, all of those things will be well established "been there, done that" activities in your mind. And that's when all this will start to "click", and you'll just KNOW how things generally work.

[Kull]

Assuming you are using the Allied spreadsheet, there are 4637 data rows. However, 2461 (over half) are "No action" of one sort or another. Using your China example, that means 214 of 437 rows can be ignored.

If desired, click the Column "M" filter button and select "Text Filters", "Does Not Contain", type "No action" in the upper right cell of the text box, and then click "OK". All the "No action" rows will disappear, and you'll be left only with those that require immediate action.

When you are done with the remaining 2176 rows, I would recommend doing a similar filter process, but this time filtering for rows that "Contain..." the words "No Filter". The vast majority have comments that can be ignored, but some of them talk about the role of that unit or base at some point in the near future, and in a very few cases, some active ships in starting TFs that should be pulled out of the TF and disbanded in port.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Kull

Assuming you are using the Allied spreadsheet, there are 4637 data rows. However, 2461 (over half) are "No action" of one sort or another. Using your China example, that means 214 of 437 rows can be ignored.

If desired, click the Column "M" filter button and select "Text Filters", "Does Not Contain", type "No action" in the upper right cell of the text box, and then click "OK". All the "No action" rows will disappear, and you'll be left only with those that require immediate action.

When you are done with the remaining 2176 rows, I would recommend doing a similar filter process, but this time filtering for rows that "Contain..." the words "No Filter". The vast majority have comments that can be ignored, but some of them talk about the role of that unit or base at some point in the near future, and in a very few cases, some active ships in starting TFs that should be pulled out of the TF and disbanded in port.

Whoaa!!

Reading all of those 4,637 data rows to figure out what I need to do seems like it would add innumerable hours to the effort.

Since I have enough experience to know what I need to do it's much faster to simply get straight to the task of getting it done.

[Yaab]

coachi, my average is 35 hours. I do not use the Kull spreadsheet, though I am very thorough in my own way. Over the years, I have created a Word checklist for turn 1 as Allies. The checklist is 50 pages long. Hope it helps.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Kull

Assuming you are using the Allied spreadsheet, there are 4637 data rows. However, 2461 (over half) are "No action" of one sort or another. Using your China example, that means 214 of 437 rows can be ignored.

If desired, click the Column "M" filter button and select "Text Filters", "Does Not Contain", type "No action" in the upper right cell of the text box, and then click "OK". All the "No action" rows will disappear, and you'll be left only with those that require immediate action.

When you are done with the remaining 2176 rows, I would recommend doing a similar filter process, but this time filtering for rows that "Contain..." the words "No Filter". The vast majority have comments that can be ignored, but some of them talk about the role of that unit or base at some point in the near future, and in a very few cases, some active ships in starting TFs that should be pulled out of the TF and disbanded in port.

Whoaa!!

Reading all of those 4,637 data rows to figure out what I need to do seems like it would add innumerable hours to the effort.

Since I have enough experience to know what I need to do it's much faster to simply get straight to the task of getting it done.

Try to remember what it was like when you didn't even know what an AE task force was and then multiply that by 1000. New players have to understand the basics - this gets them there. Besides, those 4637 data elements EXIST. Imagine what it would be like if you had no idea what to do with ANY of them?

And yes, people who know what to do - like you - can get "straight to the task". How many noobs - the audience for this workbook - have that knowledge?

[the1henson]

As a relative newbie myself, I have used the allied spreadsheet as a starting point for understanding where “hidden” major units and minor hubs are, and started by going through every action before sitting back, looking at the big picture, and deciding if that’s really how I want to proceed in each theater. It was a learning tool, a crutch if you prefer, but was in no way accepted as the optimal solution in all cases.

From a role playing perspective against the AI, I considered that “spreadsheet strategy” in my first game against the Japanese AI to be the plan my predecessor set in motion before he was fired for Pearl Harbor [:D]. I can accept or change each aspect of it as I see fit.

I recognize how much work went into things like these spreadsheets and tools like the tracker, and I am deeply appreciative. I think the committed community built around this game may be unmatched [&o]

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: the1henson

As a relative newbie myself, I have used the allied spreadsheet as a starting point for understanding where “hidden” major units and minor hubs are, and started by going through every action before sitting back, looking at the big picture, and deciding if that’s really how I want to proceed in each theater. It was a learning tool, a crutch if you prefer, but was in no way accepted as the optimal solution in all cases.

Great way to approach it.

From a role playing perspective against the AI, I considered that “spreadsheet strategy” in my first game against the Japanese AI to be the plan my predecessor set in motion before he was fired for Pearl Harbor [:D]. I can accept or change each aspect of it as I see fit.

HEY! Wait a minute!!! <"Admiral Kimmel? Call for you on Line 1.....might be from Washington?"> [X(]

I recognize how much work went into things like these spreadsheets and tools like the tracker, and I am deeply appreciative. I think the committed community built around this game may be unmatched [&o]

+1

[PaxMondo]

As IJ, day one takes me about 2 weeks. Pretty much every single unit is touched, all RnD, all ships queued, everything.

[coachi]

A laugh

So I was on the third day of my setup(about 1 1/2 hours each first two and I decided to really put in time -= about 3 1/2 hours which left me about 80% done.

ONLT THING IS I FORGOT TO SAVE IT! LOL. Gotta love it.

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: coachi

A laugh

So I was on the third day of my setup(about 1 1/2 hours each first two and I decided to really put in time -= about 3 1/2 hours which left me about 80% done.

ONLT THING IS I FORGOT TO SAVE IT! LOL. Gotta love it.

A note. When I do that first turn, I save often. I save before doing something that can not be reversed and then after it is done. I think I had about 100 saves the last time I did a Japanese turn 1.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

ORIGINAL: coachi

A laugh

So I was on the third day of my setup(about 1 1/2 hours each first two and I decided to really put in time -= about 3 1/2 hours which left me about 80% done.

ONLT THING IS I FORGOT TO SAVE IT! LOL. Gotta love it.

A note. When I do that first turn, I save often. I save before doing something that can not be reversed and then after it is done. I think I had about 100 saves the last time I did a Japanese turn 1.

Amen to THAT, brother! I get legitimately paranoid when going through that first turn.

[Hanzberger]

Remembering to save is the key, sometime you get so involved, well it slips your mind....
It certainly is a mixed bag of emotions.

[coachi]

So I decided to do my own as of where I at. Maybe be faster. Might spell doom for USa too.