Global comments on Ronnie versus Composer

[Courtenay]

Since no one should be reading both Ronnie's and Composer's threads on their game and making comments, I have created this thread for comments that everyone can read.

Please do not make comments about anybody's plans or about possible future events in this thread.

Ronnie said that both sides are doing the die rolls without using a dice server, and that he is rolling them manually. Rolling dice manually has one great advantage: When they roll horribly, you can throw them across the room to relieve your frustrations. If one is getting dice results from your computer, this won't work, as throwing your computer across the room is probably not advised. [:)]

[warspite1]

Don't get me wrong, it's great that they are sufficiently comfortable with each other to take that route but I must say from a personal perspective, I would never go down that route again. And that is regardless of opponent.

I've been in a position where I rolled a great number on a really important attack where only a great number will do.... and I just hate the thought that people will (human nature being what it is) wonder if that was genuine. It totally takes the gloss off what should be one of those great MWIF moments.

[Mayhemizer_slith]

I have to comment this dice thing. I have played with and without dice roller. With dice roller server used when I for example shoot down many enemy planes I feel free to make fun of enemy pilots without worrying will someone think how did I roll that well. I want to use it to make me feel good rolling really well, just like Warspite1 said.

I will follow you guys and learn. And I always support the one who is attacking [;)]

[rkr1958]

Thanks guys! Following communications just sent (via WhatsApp) to my opponent.

[ax] Looks like our game has generated a bit of interest and has resulted in increase activity on the forum. Courtenay has open a global comments thread on our AAR, which I think is great.

[ax] One issue raised in that thread is using a dice rolling service.

[ax] I was surprised to see how intensely folks felt about using such a service even in a friendly game as ours. Which got me thinking ... and that's usually a bad thing.

[ax] Do you wish for us to use a dice rolling service?

[ax] I'm really good using such a service if it makes you feel more comfortable.

[ax] I've good a few errands to run this morning and will get to my impulse by late morning.

[ax] By the way and as a bit of a teaser.

[ax] Italy will declare war on Great Britain but not France.

[ax]

[ax]

[composer99]

Considering some of the crazy dice results I've seen in both tabletop WiF, WiF on Vassal, and MWiF, I can't say I'm too chuffed about anyone rolling dice physically or using the game's built-in die rolling. (I'm using the game's built-in dice rolling, for the record.)

[composer99]

Well, one way to not have to worry about your good luck is when your opponent rolls it for you. In Allied impulse 6 the Italians got a 1-10 split in a naval combat in the Eastern Med and the Germans got a 3-10 split in the North Atlantic, all by my hand (so to speak).

Seems the Royal Navy hasn't quite cottoned on to being at war. [8|] [:(] [:D]

[Courtenay]

[ax] I've got to take my dogs out. But the 3rd and final naval combat is 3 subs (2,1, 0) vs 10 CP's in the North Atlantic. I saved the best for last and I'm building the tension as we wait.

[al] If by "take the dogs out" you mean "cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war", I total- oh, no you actually mean "take the dogs out".

When I read this in Ronnie's AAR. I found it appropriate to stop reading and do something else for a while. [:)]

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

[ax] I've got to take my dogs out. But the 3rd and final naval combat is 3 subs (2,1, 0) vs 10 CP's in the North Atlantic. I saved the best for last and I'm building the tension as we wait.

[al] If by "take the dogs out" you mean "cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war", I total- oh, no you actually mean "take the dogs out".

When I read this in Ronnie's AAR. I found it appropriate to stop reading and do something else for a while. [:)]

Here are my dogs of war. Scary aren't they! [:)]

[Courtenay]

They terrify me. That much cuteness has to be lethal. [:)]

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

They terrify me. That much cuteness has to be lethal. [:)]

The one facing the camera on the left is Susie. We got her when our son was in Kindergarten. He's now a freshman at Auburn. The one facing the camera on the right is Cally. We got her when he was in the 7th grade on the Friday before the famous "Kick-6" game between Auburn and Alabama.

I must confess that I'm not a big Charles de Gaulle fan. But I do love the quote below attributed to him.

[rkr1958]

Though it's still 4 1/2 hours from midnight from where I am, I wanted to wish everyone ...

[Courtenay]

Reading Ronnie's report, the US picked Occupy Greenland & Iceland and Chinese build aircraft.

I find that curious, as I almost never pick those two early. The Chinese don't particularly want to build aircraft this early in the game, and I really am not too worried about German invasions of Greenland or Iceland, so I am happy to put off that option as well. The Allies have no idea at this point whether they will get too much tension in the tension pools or too little (these are the only alternatives; just right doesn't happen, at least for me. [:)]), and so I like to keep those two options in reserve if I need tension.

There are a few important options that the US always wants to take on the road to Gear-up and War Appropriations; the rest of the options I take only if I need to increase tension. These two certainly fall into the "take to increase tension" category.

[composer99]

Well, I do like to try to suck the 1939 markers, which are on average higher value, into tension earlier, before the 1940 stuff starts fouling up the pool.

[composer99]

September/October 1939

Production

Since this stuff is "public knowledge", I'ma posting the production here.

With a shortfall of convoy points in the North Atlantic, the CW ended up saving a lot of oil, as shown in the CW finalised production form.

Also shown are turn-by-turn reinforcements and a screen capture of the spreadsheet where I track each major power's production, along with the Allied production advantage, both cumulative and turn-by-turn.

[Courtenay]

I am very confused by one unit in that picture: The Copenhagen MIL. When did Denmark get declared war on?

[composer99]

Early on - second Axis impulse (impulse #3 on the turn track).

Edit to add: Of course, it won't last. That screen capture came from before the conquest phase.

[composer99]

So I must report that one of the grand old dames of the Royal Navy, HMS Warspite, went down around Christmastide fighting the Regia Marina in Egyptian waters. I like to think she died doing what she loved, laying waste to her enemies. Not only did she sink an Italian cruiser and severely damage two others, but so fierce was her onslaught and that of her sisters that she frightened off the RM forces in the Eastern Med.

What better way for a warship to go down, than to go down fighting?

[composer99]

First impulse of March/April 1940, and Ronnie's dice decided they wanted to play the Commonwealth. The RN is 2 for 2 on chasing subs out of the Atlantic and, in an air battle in progress over Rotterdam as of this writing, has just rolled a 20.

Edit to add: The Germans managed to see off the RAF over Rotterdam (air combat roll of 14 aborts the Spitfires), but then the Stuka rolled 6 and 8 on its ground strikes, and the Bf-109s flying as bombers rolled 5,5 (both results that would have hit had they been rolled by the Stuka).

[brian brian]

I wanted to comment on something I read in your chat logs:

"[al] Medals all around for the crew of Norfolk."

This was after an inconclusive round of Axis attempts to use SUBs vs. Convoy Points in the North Atlantic.

I think as the decades roll along and WWII becomes ever more mysterious for all but the really, really interested, there is one thing in World in Flames that just kind of rots the brains of players who haven't read much on this subject:

HEAVY CRUISERS WERE NOT ASW PLATFORMS!

If the HMS Norfolk found itself on patrol in the North Atlantic in the winter of 1940, it would be doing so via a steady series of high-speed zig zag plots as it tried to perform it's job - looking for undetected German surface raiders - while it tried to avoid German U-Boats.

The Norfolk was one CA selected for routine patrol work off Norway and assisted HMS Suffolk in shadowing the Bismarck as it made for the Denmark Strait.

With the exception of troop convoys and when German surface raiders were known to be in the Atlantic, Heavy Cruisers (and Light), did not sail along with convoys to battle U-Boats. Cruisers were quite vulnerable to enemy submarines and many were lost, on both sides, to subs.

In World in Flames, CAs and CLs are given ASW points as a straight playability fudge so that attritional submarine vs merchant battles can use the same combat resolution systems as all other naval battles.

Recently, on another website I read some comments on this from a key figure in the player community who helped develop Collector's Edition rules. He said that if Axis SUB pressure in the Atlantic ends up lessening Royal Navy fleet commitment in the Pacific, then the game is doing its job better now. That is totally preposterous - the U-Boat war was won by ships smaller than the ones we have on WiF counters. The course of the Battle of the Atlantic had little to do with what the RN could send beyond the Mediterranean, as that was determined by German and Italian surface threats, not their total Submarine forces. Heavy combat ships stayed away from merchant shipping unless absolutely necessary, as off Norway where the Kriegsmarine heavy units were lurking. HMS Edinburgh and another CL (Fiji?) payed the ultimate price on that duty.

Sometimes, what we call "SCS" counters had to stay in port as all their potential destroyer escorts were busy on convoy duty. Note those 2 words - "Destroyer Escorts." What were the DDs supposed to escort? That's right, they served as anti-submarine protection for Cruisers, Battleships, and Carriers - they needed escorts - they were NOT escorts.

The ASW vs SUB system in World in Flames makes for a simple playable 'battle'. But it is obtuse sausage making of a high degree. Please don't forget that when playing World in Flames.

[markb50k]

I’ve always considered ship counters to represent a capital ships with assumed destroyer escorts. Congrats may go to the Norfolk but really it should be to those brave DD and DE crews