Morocco and Crete

[canuckgamer]

I am currently playing a PBEM game where the Axis player did not declare Vichy. Although it took longer for France to surrender he was able to use Algeria (after defeating the French forces there) as a base for aircraft to gradually reduce Gibraltar and ultimately take it. In addition Spain went over to the Axis so not declaring Vichy seems to increase the probability of this happening. This might be a better option then declaring Vichy.

I am wondering what happens with Morocco if Vichy is not declared. I can't remember if French forces appeared there.

In regards to Crete I played a few turns against the AI to see if the Brits could invade it before Italy entered the war and it was not allowed. Is this possible after Italy enters although I am not sure why this would be a factor. I didn't see Crete in the diplomacy section where the Brits could declare war. I'm thinking that having Crete would give the Brits an unsinkable airfield.

[canuckgamer]

It just occurred to me that Crete must be part of Greece so the Allies would have to declare war on Greece or wait for the Axis to declare war on Greece. In this game the Axis used diplomacy to move not only Spain but Yugoslavia to the Axis side and have not declared war on Greece.

With the Allies, the Brits would have to spend 150 production points for one diplomacy chit which is pretty expensive early in the war. I'm not sure what it costs the Axis but I believe my opponent indicated that it only cost him 50 per chit and if correct it confirms that maybe the best option is not to declare Vichy and work on Spain diplomatically.

[crispy131313]

What you are referring to happening is known as the "All of France" gambit where Vichy is not declared and the Axis conquer the French government which is re-established in Morocco. Doing so can bring Spain into the Axis in most cases, I think if you have Allied forces in Casablanca you can delay/stall Spanish entry (can't remember for sure). If Vichy is declared Morocco is rolled into Vichy French territories (neutral nation).

150 MPP is only the cost for diplomatic chits invested in the Majors, minor countries including Greece only cost 50 MPP.

[PvtBenjamin]

I think Casablanca only applies to DE 603 but am not 100% sure (haven't had anyone try All of France in a long time). You do want to secure Casablanca anyway because then the Axis have to take you out or you have a port. When Paris is about to fall you have to be prepared (troops in western French ports/fighter in Britain/Large French navy presence by Algiers) for All of France. The Axis will eventually take Algiers but the Allies can make it so painful that the Axis will never recover.

[canuckgamer]

The "All of France" gambit caught be by surprise as it is only my second game of SC WIE. I would be interested in hearing how other players have countered this. I am thinking that Brits should send ground and air to Morocco and or Algeria. When it appears that mainland France is going to fall I am also thinking the French should send their fighter(s) and transport any ground troops. As PvtBenjamin indicated the Allies want to delay the conquest of Algeria as long as possible which would impact the Axis invasion of Russia. It looks like the French fleet should concentrate in the Med to take on the Italian fleet.
Also maybe the Allies should buy diplomacy points for Spain and Yugoslavia. In the PBEM game I am playing the Axis have benefited from both Spain and Yugoslavia going Axis providing numerous units in Russia.

[Sugar]

You probably can't prevent the Axis from taking Algier, but from the Spain-DE by placing a brit. unit in Casablanca before Algier falls (forgot under which circumstances Oran is also decisive). The clock is running down for the Axis, after the US joins they can prevent any further diplo hit.

Usually Gibraltar is attacked by aircraft to improve Spain's Axis leaning, an AA would come in handy.

Be aware that after France capitulates Syria is also Axis, and usually used to pince Egypt.

Of all the posssible targets for any diplo Yugoslavia is probably the least valuable.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

The "All of France" gambit caught be by surprise as it is only my second game of SC WIE. I would be interested in hearing how other players have countered this. I am thinking that Brits should send ground and air to Morocco and or Algeria. When it appears that mainland France is going to fall I am also thinking the French should send their fighter(s) and transport any ground troops. As PvtBenjamin indicated the Allies want to delay the conquest of Algeria as long as possible which would impact the Axis invasion of Russia. It looks like the French fleet should concentrate in the Med to take on the Italian fleet.
Also maybe the Allies should buy diplomacy points for Spain and Yugoslavia. In the PBEM game I am playing the Axis have benefited from both Spain and Yugoslavia going Axis providing numerous units in Russia.

Sugars recollection of "All of France" is probably better than mine. My memory is foggy and with all the updates I'm not sure if holding Casablanca (or Oran) defers the Spanish decision like it does for DE 603 but will assume it does. I'm also not sure if there is a Spanish diplomacy criteria but think there is.


Some ideas for Allies in "All of France" scenario

French Navy

Once the Axis attacks France & co keep a couple French surface ships around GB to protect against LR amphib up the German coast/Netherlands etc. Put the rest of the French Navy between Tunis & Gibraltar. Block the Axis gateway to Med off Gibraltar with a destroyer & something so Axis subs cant get in.

In the last couple turns before France falls operate battered troops to western french ports so they can be transported to Oran/Tunis if "AOF" attempted (Axis also doesn't get the easy experience pts). Fly the French fighter to GB, even if "AOF" isn't attempted you have a 20% chance of keeping fighter. Try to keep some French MPP's in reserve right before Paris falls, its usually fairly easy.

Going "All of France" quickly requires German airpower and reduces the probability (not impossible) of sealion. This possibly frees up GB Air & Navy units.

If Germans reject Vichy the French get a full strength (w/* exp) HQ/Army/Bomber & fighter (manual says 2 bombers) in Algiers. Put the Army in Algiers upgrade to 11, put the 10 strength corp in Bougie. French will now have 2 fighters (operate the one in GB).

The only ports Axis can transport to are Oran (have to protect), Tunis or Tripoli (long way). Watch out for LR amphibs. Generally the Axis will bomb the 8 str corp in Tunis and take Tunis then move west. With the new supply rules the trip from Tunis to Algiers is much tougher, use the GB Strat Bomber to reduce supply along the way, use the GB Maritime bomber you purchased early (a must GB purchase early).

Again you won't stop Algiers from falling but you'll put a big dent in the Italian Navy/Axis air and significantly push out the timeline for Egypt & Barbarossa.

gl

[Taxman66]

Make sure you garrison Syria before Algeria falls or it will become Axis when France/Algeria falls. Then you will suddenly have a horde of German units transport and operate into your backdoor.