Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment

[Hairog]

Unfortunately Task Forces only search at the end of their turn up to their full range. It's built into the game. They do have a couple of hex range as they move. You'll be surprized at how much you can see in that 8 hexes compared to 2 or 3 that it is in the stock game.

Use your Screening Task Forces well and surround your Fast Carrier TF and Bombadment TF etc. Screening and Recon TF are cheap and fast to become available again if shattered. Remember they are not destroyed just disorganized and need repair and reinforcements.

If you really want to get into the Naval Mod and have a lot of Fast Carrier TF to run around with, start saving your money and buy SC3 World at War. Matrix and the developers have included 4 of my Naval Mod campaigns in a Community Pack that comes free with the game, similar to the World War Three Campaign that comes with this game.

[canuckgamer]

I think I know what the problem is. I clicked on "Here" as you indicated. It took me to a Dropbox page listing the following:

1939 Storm over Europe od.cgn 38.18 MB
1939 Storm over Europe od.dat 3.75 KB
1939 Storm over Europe ai Mod.

However when I downloaded the above three, each download was the same, 1939 StormOverEurope 7Z 21020 KB. No dat or ai. This explains the Overwrite and why the HQ builds are screwed up. Please read my post two previous to your latest post above which begins with "It's a little confusing...."

[Hairog]

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble.

I don't know how you got three files that are the same. Please try again. It is working for me and as far as I know other folks don't seem to have that trouble.

These are the correct three files:

1939 Storm over Europe od.cgn 38.18 MB
1939 Storm over Europe od.dat 3.75 KB
1939 Storm over Europe ai Mod.

If you don't get these after extraction something is wrong. Are you using 7 zip? Maybe that is the problem. I think I've heard that 7 zip has to be unzipped with 7 zip.

[PvtBenjamin]

Would it be possible to put the '39 scenario with the naval mod in the community pack?

[canuckgamer]

I've tried everything and can't get the mod to work which is too bad because as I mentioned, the naval aspect is the biggest weakness of this game. I went back to dropbox. There is one download file that is 20.53 MB. I downloaded this and put it in Users/xxxxx/Documents/MyGames/Strategic Command War in Europe/campaigns. I then used 7 Zip and chose extract here. The extracted files were:

1. A yellow folder names 1939 Storm over Europe Naval Mod
2. 1939 Storm over Europe Naval Mod. cgn 39101 KB
3. 1939 Storm over Europe Naval Mod 4k - Video CD Movie

I don't see the dat file you referred to. I started up SC in hotseat mode and the production is still screwed up. For example German HQ builds doesn't list German generals like Rommel, instead some names I never heard of. Plus it says not eligible until May 1940.

Hopefully as per PvtBenjamin's suggestion the naval mod will be put in the community pack.

[Hairog]

I think I may have an snswer for the folder mix up. Dropbox put everything for the mod into one mega folder called 1939StormOver Europe. The two files and one folder mentioned
_1939 Storm over Europe Naval Mod
1939 Storm over Europe Naval Mod.cgn
1939 Storm over Europe Naval Mod.dat
should be put separated into the campaign folder that is in - Users/xxxxx/Documents/MyGames/Strategic Command War in Europe. They should not be all together and in the folder named "1939StormOver Europe".

I'm still working on the names being messed up. As far as I can tell this doesn't affect gameplay. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think the Germans can deploy new generals until after May 1940.

[canuckgamer]

Yes, all the builds, so not only the generals are in red and it says they cannot be built until May 10 1940.

Just to give you a few examples of what shows under HQ builds.

British - Prinz Eugen (7), U-73(6) Bismarck (6), Ark Royal (5) etc etc

U.S. - Leopold (7) Dunkerque (6)etc etc

Russia - Wainwright (8) Warden (6) Bunker Hill (8) etc etc

I look forward to the correct download files for the mod as we would like to use it our next PBEM and will continue to check this thread for the new link.

Thanks.

[Gilber]

ORIGINAL: Hairog

No offense Gilber but there is some kind of myth that surface ships regularly caught and sank fast cv task forces. I was one of those who thought this until I did the research. There were exactly two instances where a CV or CVL were caught. One was the HMS Glorious who had a former submariner as Captain. There was no combat patrol, search planes or even a lookout in the crows nest. Once the Germans were spotted he didn't alter course. There were no planes on standby for quick launch. The guy did almost everything wrong you can think of.

The other was a jeep carrier caught in the wrong place at the wrong time by the last of the Japanese fleet at the end of the war. A bad decision by Halsey left them exposed and ripe for a battleship or two being masked by the Solaman Islands. The task force Taffy 3 still gave a good account of itself and almost got away.

5% of the carriers sunk in WWII were sunk by gunfire or surface combat. 95% were not and were sunk by air powere or submarines. My point is that this fastination with a battleship getting within range of a carrier and blowing it out of the water is a myth. Every task force composed of big gun surface ships that was sent out to intercept a carrier task force, failed.

As I said I was under the same spell as most before doing the research. Literaly hundreds of submarines and destroyers were sunk yet less than 5% of the carriers sunk were by gunfire.

On another note over 6000 merchant ships from Japan, US and the UK were sent to the bottom. That number is astounding to me. Let me repeat that ... over 6000 individual troop transports, tramp steamers, Liberty ships etc.!

you're right, aircraft carriers have in practice hardly ever been bothered by surface ships.

As in SC surface ships can travel 21 hexes per turn the solution might be to give the carrier a high probability of escaping combat by evading in a similar manner to submarines.

what do you think of this?

[Simulacra53]

1939
100% by sub
0% by a/c
0% by surface vessels

1940
0% by sub
0% by aircraft
100% by surface vessels

1941
100% by sub
0% by a/c
0% by surface vessel

So by extension for the first two full years of the war carriers were invulnerable to a/c, right?

[Hairog]

ORIGINAL: Gilber

you're right, aircraft carriers have in practice hardly ever been bothered by surface ships.

As in SC surface ships can travel 21 hexes per turn the solution might be to give the carrier a high probability of escaping combat by evading in a similar manner to submarines.

what do you think of this?

That's exactly what I've done in all the naval mods. The carriers have a defensive evasion of 70%. So even if you get through all the Screen Task Forces you still have only a 30% chance of getting any damage. CV also have a 3 hex retreat range and an 8 hex search range at the end of their turn. They are indeed a formitable unit to have, just like the historical record indicates.

[Hairog]

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

1939
100% by sub
0% by a/c
0% by surface vessels

1940
0% by sub
0% by aircraft
100% by surface vessels

1941
100% by sub
0% by a/c
0% by surface vessel

So by extension for the first two full years of the war carriers were invulnerable to a/c, right?

Ha! Nice try Simulacra53. That just took you down a notch to Simulara54.

[canuckgamer]

Hairog, I'm wondering if you will be releasing the corrected files for the naval mod shortly? We would like to start another PBEM game but not until we can play it with the mod. Thanks.

[Hairog]

Still working on why the units and their names don't matchup. I'll contact Hubert or Bill and see if they can shed some light.

[ThunderLizard11]

One issue I have with naval mod is the retreat mechanisms. Carriers (or others) when attacked often retreat towards the enemy not away from the enemy units. Can this be fixed?

[Hairog]

I gave carriers a 3 hex retreat range, but I don't know how to control what direction. Hopefully Hubert or Bill will read this and give us an answer

[canuckgamer]

I'm a little confused, from ThunderLizard's comment, this mod must have been working properly at one time. I'm wondering if you have been able to contact Hubert and or Bill to find out what is wrong with the current download? In addition, do you think this will be corrected this week or should we just go ahead and start a new PBEM game without the mod? Thanks.

[Elessar2]

I'd sure like to see this with that new base Pacific map using a much larger scale, along with the shorter turns which would now be workable (since in the base game you can't make the turns too short because, after adjusting movement ranges down to compensate, land units would be highly non-manueverable).

[Hairog]

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

I'd sure like to see this with that new base Pacific map using a much larger scale, along with the shorter turns which would now be workable (since in the base game you can't make the turns too short because, after adjusting movement ranges down to compensate, land units would be highly non-manueverable).

It works for SC3 World at War. What new base Pacific map are you referring to?

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

One issue I have with naval mod is the retreat mechanisms. Carriers (or others) when attacked often retreat towards the enemy not away from the enemy units. Can this be fixed?

With the next game version update this should be improved, not always a guarantee in the retreat direction, but more of an effort by the engine to not have it end up next to enemy units if possible.

[canuckgamer]

I'm wondering if the naval mod will be added to the community pack in this next update? Or will a working version be made available before the update? Thanks.