Axis Sealion strategy.

[Michael T]

And UK in '41 should be reeling and fighting for survival / on the defensive

Cohen, this is what you said. And that was not the case.

The only reason they did not throw Italy right out of Libya was the intervention in Greece.

Arm wrestling, your term, is more agreeable. But reeling and fighting for survival was simply not the case in 1941.

[Michael T]

I think what would help also is some randomization of the entry dates for US and USSR if no Barbarossa occurs. Make 5/42 the latest USSR can DOW. Make it possible from say 9/41. The Germans then just can't denude the East till May 42.

I like the way Adv Third Reich/AWAW handles the US and USSR entry. The game has a Tension level for each of the two that has a host of modifiers plus a turn by turn random modifier. Every action taken by the Axis (or not taken) influences the Tension levels.

The effect is that a very passive Germany can delay the war with the US. But a very aggressive Germany will hasten the entry date.

[Michael T]

Further to the above. In A3R/AWAW if Germany concentrates on the UK in 1941 then both Russia and the USA will DOW on Germany earlier.

This really needs to be implemented in WarPlan.

The USSR and USA would not sit around while Nazi's run rampant over Europe in 1941. And even if you don't agree with that it is surely needed for game balance.

[Michael T]

I have said this before, but another thing to do would be to reduce the VP in UK to say 3 and add 2 extra in Russia.

[LiquidSky]

I am curious as to why nobody builds Coastal Fortifications for the British. They only cost 30 and add a 0.4 multiplier.

I see a lot of people lend the French economy to the English...I give it to the Canadians and let them build Fighters with it. You can have one in England in time for Sealion and another about to show up.

The game should allow US lendlease as soon as England is invaded.


Michael T makes a good point about VP's. There are 3 easy vp's in Russia....the 4th becomes Moscow. The 5th Leningrad. The 6th Stalingrad.

If you go Med....Madrid, Lisbon, Vichy....Gibraltar. Then Algiers and Cairo.. and sea lion gives you 5 in England. There should only be one in England. And take away Lisbon.

[Franciscus]

Why is there the “night move” rule in the game ?

IMHO, theoretically in a game of this scale (time and space) this rule makes an invasion to or from England essentially impossible to oppose by air and naval forces - which does not seem right.

[Flaviusx]

Coastal fortifications aren't going to stop the luftwaffe from bombing things to nothing. Not the answer. For 30 points I'd rather buy 2 flak.

French lending to the Canadians? Yes, maybe in 3 months they'll be able to build a fighter with that, which will take another 7 months to arrive (once you include shipping time.) Not very helpful. By that time the Wehrmacht will have overrun Britain.

You are better off giving the money to the British in the first instance, and they need it rather badly.

[tyronec]

Agree strongly with what MichaelT an Flavius have written.

One issue is that UK production is too low.
Another is with the game mechanics and that it is too difficult to defend against invasions, even more so when they can invade doing a Night move. My suggestion would be to try something different in a dedicated Beta patch and let players give it some testing.


Concentrated bombing is over the top, for invasions but also elsewhere in the game.

Capturing AA is wrong. Also switching nationality (so an Italy HQ can pick up German AA and put it in Italy).

I would take out Yugoslavia joining Axis if Greece is taken early. It is speculation that this could have happened and when it does is a big boost to Axis power. Same for Spain joining Axis, it is another boost that is probably not justified. Then if they do come in they have too much impact. What did Bulgaria contribute to the Axis war effort, if anything ? But in the game they are really valuable.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: tyronec
So here's what happens.
T2 Axis take Poland, Netherlands and Denmark (I messed it up and didn't get Netherlands until T3).
During the winter you wait for a CLEAR and can do Belgium in one turn...

France will fall in June or July. In our game it went in early June.

A thought. Historically Germany delayed attacks on the west because Hitler didn't expect Britain/France to go to war over Poland, and perhaps was optimistic that some kind of peace could be reached over the winter. In games, there is no such incentive for delay.

One thing to look at may be how quickly German units historically redeployed from Poland to the west and whether rail limits could be reduced to restrict rapid redeployments. It may help a little bit, but frankly if Axis is committed to an aggressive war in the west from the start then there may not be much Britain and France can do except fight tooth and nail to delay France surrender. As Al suggests. In historical hindsight, if Hitler had also been so aggressive then the results may have been similar.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Michael T
I like the way Adv Third Reich/AWAW handles the US and USSR entry. The game has a Tension level for each of the two that has a host of modifiers plus a turn by turn random modifier. Every action taken by the Axis (or not taken) influences the Tension levels.

Exactly. Invading Britain is one thing, holding off USA and Russia with early entry is another. And early DOWs should also increase tensions, which should also increase USA and Russia pre-war production accordingly. The Axis player's question is: Is SeaLion a risk or a gamble? It's a long war...

[MagicMissile]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Agree strongly with what MichaelT an Flavius have written.

One issue is that UK production is too low.
Another is with the game mechanics and that it is too difficult to defend against invasions, even more so when they can invade doing a Night move. My suggestion would be to try something different in a dedicated Beta patch and let players give it some testing.


Concentrated bombing is over the top, for invasions but also elsewhere in the game.

Capturing AA is wrong. Also switching nationality (so an Italy HQ can pick up German AA and put it in Italy).

I would take out Yugoslavia joining Axis if Greece is taken early. It is speculation that this could have happened and when it does is a big boost to Axis power. Same for Spain joining Axis, it is another boost that is probably not justified. Then if they do come in they have too much impact. What did Bulgaria contribute to the Axis war effort, if anything ? But in the game they are really valuable.

I agree with alot written here as well. I am thinking maybe at least one could limit eastern axis minors so they can´t move west of Berlin. So Italian or German troops man the coast of France. Think I remember many boardgames limit where the axis minors could be placed.

[PanzerMike]

I would caution for too many restrictions. Too much railroading will kill a game like this.

[Michael T]

Think I remember many boardgames limit where the axis minors could be placed.

Absolutely. Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria were only ever operating in the Balkans and Russia. Same with the Finns, Scandinavia and Russia. If anyone can provide an example otherwise?

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
By '41 they're virtually neutered by 20+ escorts teched up).

I thought you said the British aren't building ships so they don't need more production. 20+ escorts would mean there was a very active sub war that has been going on, so lots of stuff has been sunk.

Britain in your example has spent about 800 points (4+ months production) on escorts alone and probably a similar amount on merchants to replace losses. You really do like to throw around big fantasy numbers don't you. No way in hell Britain can spend that amount of production on its navy by 1941, not even close.

Jim

[AlbertN]

I've not thrown big numbers.
They start with an amount, and receive another amount of escorts by USA later on as Gift of Destroyers. Only a partial amount of these 20+ are produced.
Subsequently Soviets add their 3 escorts to their Lend Lease route too.

I've not said -produced- 20. I said how many were operating. And by then they were just butchering submarines so there was no ulterior need of more. Actually 20 are excessive as by the combat log, never saw more than 10 in action.
Considering Uk can change the escort location on the spot (Axis moves first, so you just check the submarine position and instantly switch where escorts are...) unless they get sank, submarines have no hope in '41.

___

On restricting minors I do not see what's the fuss.
As PanzerMike pointed out excess of railroading kills these type of games - and I agree to that.

GIVEN - I personally use them in Russia, but if one wants to send them to beach duty guard for whichever reason, by all means.

[Michael T]

On restricting minors I do not see what's the fuss.
As PanzerMike pointed out excess of railroading kills these type of games - and I agree to that.

So on one hand you are happy to see Rumanians in North Africa or Yugoslavians in France. But heaven forbid UK units in Russia. Or Russian's in Egypt.

You want a free for all for the Axis but insist on restraining the Allies to historical precedents.

It's quite funny actually. The consistent bias you exude is outrageous and laughable.

[aspqrz02]

Yep, a lot of one eyed Axis fanboys appear in all WW2 computer game forums ... this is no exception.

They COULD try my Historical ORBAT mod, but THAT would 'force' them to work within the historical constraints BOTH sides had to ... and that would be unacceptable ... for the Axis.

Phil McGregor

[Flaviusx]

Honestly kind of surprised players are using the Axis minors to guard beaches instead of on partisan warfare in the east. A rule to restrict their deployment shouldn't even be necessary because the obvious thing to do with them is secure the long eastern supply lines. And that pretty much will take up all your Hungarians, Romanians and Bulgarians.

What are they using for this instead of the Axis minors?

[Michael T]

Well for example in my current PBEM, not only do the RAF have to contend with the Luftwaffe and their Italian lackies in the battle for Algeria but a host of Hungarian, Rumanian and Yugoslavian air units. Not that they do much damage but they do soak up my defending air units quite effectively. I guess I will soon encounter the Finns.

It's not a big deal. It just would be nice to have a tad more historical flavor in the game. Cos it's somewhat lacking in some area's.

And certain posters made a song and dance about Western Allies in Russia. But happy to see Finns in he deserts of North Africa.

[Flaviusx]

I guess this is what happens when you go all in on the UK, sigh. But if games took a more historical course these minors would end up where they belong.