OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller

[Bearcat2]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

ORIGINAL: Ian R

As an independent observer, it seems the move to naming USN carriers after people flowed from the Forrestal & the JFK, and the decision to shift the state and city names to the growing fleets of SSBNs and SSNs. The old carrier names (battles and historical ships, and a few long dead people) went to the Tico cruisers and large amphibious assault ships. At the same time the USN was trying, in spite of political interference, to stick with its naming conventions, hence the Spruance, OH Perry, and Kidd classes.

That left the new carriers to be given deceased peoples' names, including presidents', instead of the SSBNs which used to get those (there was a George Washington class SSBN named Robert E. Lee, as an outlier example). The Carl S Vinson fitted with the Forrestal precedent, and of the Fleet Admirals, King, Halsey and Spruance were already taken when Nimitz was launched.

Doris Miller doesn't fit any of that.

If I was in charge, I wouldn't use live people's names, but then I'm not in charge.

Nothing wrong with the name Doris Miller. However, rumour has it that the next pair of CVNs will be named after those other two war heroes of Pearl Harbor fame - Danny Walker and Rafe McCawley

Walker and McCawley were in the Army, they named a tank after Walker [M-41] and the MBT-70 after McCawley, but the MBT-70 was cancelled.

[JohnDillworth]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

A few weeks ago, a writer sent me a note about his submission (50 words or less) as to the most heroic naval action in American history. His nomination was the Monitor. My immediate thought was USN destroyers in the Battle of Samah.

Good choices both. I nominate the USS San Fransisco going toe to toe, salvo to salvo, with a Japanese BB and giving as good as she got. Even with their senior command all dead that crew put out over 20 fires, stayed in the fight and brought their ship home.

[tolsdorff]

There is a good document online about the San Francisco's sustainend battle damage, including pictures.

[RangerJoe]

Thank you, that is interesting.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

There is a good document online about the San Francisco's sustainend battle damage, including pictures.

Interesting to see the inaccuracies in the estimation of the Japanese forces involved and the avoidance of mention of the possibility of friendly fire incidents.
San Fran certainly deserves the kudos to her crew and continuation of her name, but it is difficult to single out a hero on her to name a ship after. The Admirals and Captain were killed early on so the continued fighting of the ship was handled by persons unnamed in the crew AFAIK.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

There is a good document online about the San Francisco's sustainend battle damage, including pictures.

Thanks for posting this. I remember seeing these pictures years ago and thinking what I do now: high caliber naval gunfire must just make mincemeat out of frail human bodies. The spall in the Captain's bath area is appalling.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

ORIGINAL: Ian R

As an independent observer, it seems the move to naming USN carriers after people flowed from the Forrestal & the JFK, and the decision to shift the state and city names to the growing fleets of SSBNs and SSNs. The old carrier names (battles and historical ships, and a few long dead people) went to the Tico cruisers and large amphibious assault ships. At the same time the USN was trying, in spite of political interference, to stick with its naming conventions, hence the Spruance, OH Perry, and Kidd classes.

That left the new carriers to be given deceased peoples' names, including presidents', instead of the SSBNs which used to get those (there was a George Washington class SSBN named Robert E. Lee, as an outlier example). The Carl S Vinson fitted with the Forrestal precedent, and of the Fleet Admirals, King, Halsey and Spruance were already taken when Nimitz was launched.

Doris Miller doesn't fit any of that.

If I was in charge, I wouldn't use live people's names, but then I'm not in charge.

Nothing wrong with the name Doris Miller. However, rumour has it that the next pair of CVNs will be named after those other two war heroes of Pearl Harbor fame - Danny Walker and Rafe McCawley

I had the John C Stennis more in mind.

[Mark VII]

The Navy named two ships, DD 792 and then DDG 994 after Rear Admiral Daniel J. Callaghan and destroyer USS Cassin Young (DD-793) for Captain Cassin Young. The Cassin Young is currently on display in Boston. They also named a Frigate (FF-1084) for the communications officer, Lieutenant Commander Bruce McCandless and his father Commodore Byron McCandless. Surprised that no ship was named for the San Francisco's damage control officer, Lieutenant Commander Herbert E. Schonland. Schonland's knowledge and skill pretty much saved the ship.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Interesting to see the inaccuracies in the estimation of the Japanese forces involved and the avoidance of mention of the possibility of friendly fire incidents.
San Fran certainly deserves the kudos to her crew and continuation of her name, but it is difficult to single out a hero on her to name a ship after. The Admirals and Captain were killed early on so the continued fighting of the ship was handled by persons unnamed in the crew AFAIK.

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

A few weeks ago, a writer sent me a note about his submission (50 words or less)
as to the most heroic naval action in American history. His nomination was the Monitor.
My immediate thought was USN destroyers in the Battle of Samar.

I've said to friends (yeah I have some)[;)] and relatives that Samar was the U.S. Navy's finest hour.

A David and Goliath type event.

[dr.hal]

A number of historians think that Mr. Miller would have gotten the Medal of Honor if it were not for his color (there was some resistance to even giving him the Navy Cross at the time!). The naming of a ship is as much a political statement as it is a historical one. For example every state except one has had a capitol ship named after it. Spreading that around is a political concept. Thus I think that naming a CV after Mr. Miller is a "capitol" idea! It is certainly a political choice and of course a social one. We had no "colored" leadership in the Second World War, thus finding a black person to so honor was and remains no easy task. Yet, honors such as this should be widely disseminated for social and yes even political reasons. I think it sends a very mature message to all in the USA and to anyone else who cares to listen. Mr. Miller died as a cook, one of the few positions folks of color could hold in the navy at the time. Yet on the Day of Infamy he proved to be one hell of a shot (he accounted for two Japanese aircraft as I recall) but was never allowed to cross deck into a gunner's rating. Thank goodness times have changed.

[AcePylut]

Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is a good book about the Battle of Samar.

[NigelKentarus]

A Ship named for him...yes by all means. A Carrier, I don't know. My first ship, the USS Newman K. Perry (DD-883) [in the game] was named after an Ensign who was killed in a boiler explosion in WW 1. A carrier...I don't know...destroyer...yes.