CW/FF territorials - cooperation with US units.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I am waiting for feedback on what they think the correct treatment of the Northern Ireland territorial is.

warspite1

Apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick here, but why should there be any query about a Northern Irish Territorial? The province (not a WIF term) is an integral part of the United Kingdom CW Home Country and I assume there is no different treatment for that unit than there would be, for example, the Glasgow MIL.

There is a difference of opinion on the topic... FE and CE have different treatments as well.

One view is that NI is part of the UK and therefore it is a CW home country unit.

The other is that if the "territory" comes under US control, the unit either:

(a) goes in the US force pool (FE)

or

(b) is removed from the game because there is no counterpart in US colours (CE treatment).

In MWIF, NI is identified as a "sub-country" in the list on about page II-200 of the player's manual. I suspect this means it will co-operate with the US as currently coded.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

If you think there is a bug -- and the New Caledonia TERR stacking with the US looks like a bug to me -- post it to the Tech Support forum. If it is not a bug, people will let you know.

I posted a question about this in the WIF forum, and Bill Popovich and others agree with you - the FF New Caledonia territorial is not supposed to co-operate with the US (or the CW).

I am waiting for feedback on what they think the correct treatment of the Northern Ireland territorial is.

Sorry, but I don't think you understand how things are.

MWIF is coded according to RAW 7 together with the FAQ and some additions and changes made to the rules in 2008. Any rule change which happened after that point, has not been coded. So: if a group now says that this isn't according to RAW7, they are simply too late to change MWIF.
Any rule changes and a lot of questions which popped up during coding, have been discussed between ADG, the programmer and the beta test team.

If we now have to start making again changes to the code, because a WIF forum in 2020, which has taken no part into the development of MWIF, says that things have to change, we are going in the wrong direction. Where is that going to end? The rules of the boardgame have been subject for discussion for many, many years. Tomorrow another opinion regarding RAW will come out of the big hat of another forum.

IMHO, this is not the way to go, especially since there are only 3 units involved. Don't waste time on this. There are more pressing issues to solve...

No bug, since the literal text of RAW has been followed and that's how it is...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well in all the games of MWIF I've played the NI TERR has never featured so I've no idea how its working (only how it should) but

ORIGINAL: Centuur

There are more pressing issues to solve...

warspite1

Amen to that.... return to base digression for naval air combat for one.....

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Centuur


No bug, since the literal text of RAW has been followed and that's how it is...

I already said above, I agree with you, no bug. No-one is saying "things have to change".

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Well in all the games of MWIF I've played the NI TERR has never featured so I've no idea how its working (only how it should) but

The question I originally asked was:

Are there some geography specific rules in place as to CW & FF territorials co-operating with the US?

The answer is "yes".

CW home country territorials, and CW/FF territorials from a 'sub-country' without a capital do. CW/FF territorials from minor countries with capitals don't. Ulster is a sub-country territory in game terms.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

The question I originally asked was:

Are there some geography specific rules in place as to CW & FF territorials co-operating with the US?

The answer is "yes".

CW home country territorials, and CW/FF territorials from a 'sub-country' without a capital do. CW/FF territorials from minor countries with capitals don't. Ulster is a sub-country territory in game terms.

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The rule applied to 1939 colony territorials seems to be that a unit from a colonial geographic entity without a capital city, co-operates the same as the units of the MP that controls it.

Examples include the New Caledonia, Northern Ireland, and British Somaliland territorials. They might be the only three units in that category.

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I am waiting for feedback on what they think the correct treatment of the Northern Ireland territorial is.

warspite1

But sub-country isn't a defined term in RAC. There are only Home Countries and Territories. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom Home Country (and most definitely not a colony) and so there should be nothing special or different about its TERR to that of any other UK unit.

A home country consists of every hex that a MAR could reach from the capital of that home country without crossing a red political boundary
or entering a hex containing the name of another major power

and

Britain: a.k.a. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

[Ian R]

But sub-country isn't a defined term in RAC.

It is a term described in the player's manual Vol II; read from about page 200ff. I agree, though, its characteristics are not fully defined.

[BrianJH]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

But sub-country isn't a defined term in RAC.

It is a term described in the player's manual Vol II; read from about page 200ff. I agree, though, its characteristics are not fully defined.

Check 11.2.2 in Player Manual II. p 198.

Countries are broken into 4 mutually exclusive groups: governed areas, sub-countries, minor countries, and major powers. These roughly match territories, subareas of countries, minor countries, and the major powers in WIF terms. Sub-countries are used for odds and ends: SS units, Nationalist China, Communist China, Eastern Poland, Bessarabia, and so on.

Interesting to note that New Caledonia is categorized a sub-country [ ID 4 ] from the table on page 199. So, I'm presuming that this would make New Caledonia a part of France. This would explain why the USA units are co-operating with the NCA units.

Not sure why this decision was made, in the board game this area is considered a territory, perhaps those who have been around longer can explain.

Brian.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Ian R

The question I originally asked was:

Are there some geography specific rules in place as to CW & FF territorials co-operating with the US?

The answer is "yes".

CW home country territorials, and CW/FF territorials from a 'sub-country' without a capital do. CW/FF territorials from minor countries with capitals don't. Ulster is a sub-country territory in game terms.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rule applied to 1939 colony territorials seems to be that a unit from a colonial geographic entity without a capital city, co-operates the same as the units of the MP that controls it.

Examples include the New Caledonia, Northern Ireland, and British Somaliland territorials. They might be the only three units in that category.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am waiting for feedback on what they think the correct treatment of the Northern Ireland territorial is.

warspite1

But sub-country isn't a defined term in RAC. There are only Home Countries and Territories. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom Home Country (and most definitely not a colony) and so there should be nothing special or different about its TERR to that of any other UK unit.

A home country consists of every hex that a MAR could reach from the capital of that home country without crossing a red political boundary
or entering a hex containing the name of another major power

and

Britain: a.k.a. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

The US can 'claim' Northern Ireland and make it US controlled. That is why I have marked it as a sub-country. It falls into the same category as Bessarabia and Transylvania, which are groups of hexes that start out as part of one country but can pass over to the control of a different country.