Fuel Requirements in 1.12.03

[xhoel]

Was just testing 1.12.03 a bit and noticed that fuel requirements for units are much higher in this version. Not complaining, just wondering why that is?

For example the 9th Panzer Division needs 369 tons of fuel in 1.11.03. That same unit with no changes to it needs 666 tons of fuel in 1.12.03. That's almost twice as much fuel.





The same goes for Infantry divisions. They need almost three times as much fuel:

[marius1337]

From the changelog for 1.12.00: "Supply is now moved between cities and units in lbs instead of tons (1 ton=2000 lbs)". Can this be the cause?

[morvael]

It's on purpose, but it's not this change.

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: morvael

It's on purpose, but it's not this change.

I'm just wondering what is causing it? Or is it just a multiplier to make refuel harder?

[morvael]

It was a quest to actually make some dent in fuel stockpiles. Supply system is proportional, so actually it scales up with higher needs. New supply system and bug fixes resulted in lower truck use, so I've increased basic truck usage from 6 to 9 lbs per MP (or something like that), to increase fuel use and keep truck use at similar level.

[xhoel]

Aha ok I understand and it does make sense. Will have to see how that works in reality though.

Is there a chance for you to give us a breakdown of the new supply window? All the numbers are nice, but don't mean much when you don't know what they are referring to, although I can figure most of them out.

For example: the Panzer division shows consumption of 84. I'm guessing that is 84 tons of supplies, since that is the requirement too?

Or for the Infantry division, it shows that the unit wanted 177 tons of supplies, what does the number in the parenthesis mean?

And does the sentence at the end refers to resupply operations? So the Panzer Division used 31 vehicles and 5 tons of fuel to conduct resupply?

[morvael]

It's quite simple actually.

Here's one story:
208th MD was in range of HQ, so was resupplied through it. The division had 8 tons of supplies and 79 tons of ammo on hand, and wanted 89 tons of supplies and 190 tons of ammo. In total 279 tons. Due to reduced efficiency (0.68 due to local vehicles shortage x 0.9 due to failed admin roll) it requested only 173 tons from HQ. Unfortunately because of global vehicle shortage, and perhaps other shortages (like rail capacity shortage), HQ got only 46% of all supplies requested through it, so it gave only 80 tons of supplies to 208th MD. That was divided into 26 tons of supplies (28% of wanted), and 54 tons of ammo (28% of wanted). Luckily correct ammo was sent, and none was wasted (Sov. Ammo at 100%). So the division had 8+26=34 tons of supply on hand after resupply, and consumed half of that (to conserve rest for next week), that was only 34% of normal consumption of 49.

Moving 80 tons of supplies and 39 tons of fuel over 1 MP (minimum value for units in the same hex) through the week required 21 vehicles (this adds up to the number seen as total vehicle need for resupply), which consumed 2 tons of fuel.

Note: numbers are rounded to tons (1 ton = 2000 lbs), so sometimes they may not add up to the same numbers.

[eskuche]

This is great morvael thanks. Only slightly hijacking the thread, but could you also explain how new airfield resupply works? My impression is sorties draw first from airbase then from nearby towns (determined at beginning of turn or dynamic?) and then finally through rail supply to a permanent source. If this is correct, does the last option expend vehicles and if so how many and where can we see this? What if a town has only supply (presumably automatically converted to ammo)? Is fuel separately drawn from rail? Finally, does rail inefficient affect this just-in-time supply and does this afffect supply rail cap (and if so where can we see currently available supply rail cap)? A lot I know but it is quite opaque to me as a newer player, thanks!

[xhoel]

@morvael: Thanks a lot for all this info, I really appreciate it

[Model1950]

ORIGINAL: eskuche

This is great morvael thanks. Only slightly hijacking the thread, but could you also explain how new airfield resupply works? My impression is sorties draw first from airbase then from nearby towns (determined at beginning of turn or dynamic?) and then finally through rail supply to a permanent source. If this is correct, does the last option expend vehicles and if so how many and where can we see this? What if a town has only supply (presumably automatically converted to ammo)? Is fuel separately drawn from rail? Finally, does rail inefficient affect this just-in-time supply and does this afffect supply rail cap (and if so where can we see currently available supply rail cap)? A lot I know but it is quite opaque to me as a newer player, thanks!

morveal when your done with those questions.

When I delete a unit where does:

1. The manpower go
2. equipment
3. fuel/ammo/supplies

Do they go to the general "pool" or to the nearest town, SU, HQ or division?

Thanks

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: eskuche

This is great morvael thanks. Only slightly hijacking the thread, but could you also explain how new airfield resupply works? My impression is sorties draw first from airbase then from nearby towns (determined at beginning of turn or dynamic?) and then finally through rail supply to a permanent source. If this is correct, does the last option expend vehicles and if so how many and where can we see this? What if a town has only supply (presumably automatically converted to ammo)? Is fuel separately drawn from rail? Finally, does rail inefficient affect this just-in-time supply and does this afffect supply rail cap (and if so where can we see currently available supply rail cap)? A lot I know but it is quite opaque to me as a newer player, thanks!

Yes, a bit may be drawn from airbase, more from cities nearby. It does not expend any vehicles, nor is affected by supply rail cap though.

I never had a good solution for airbases and groups they resupply. If the airbases carry extra supplies that depend on the number of planes, then it's easy to abuse the system by removing aircraft from any base every second turn. If they always carry a lot of supplies, they become vehicle hogs. If there will be limits to resupply (for example distance limits), then it's too easy to block aircraft from flying at all. I guess the only good solution in this model would be to make air groups "carry" their supplies with them, and resupply them like ground units.

Towns and HQs always carry generic supply that gets converted to supply and ammo. Generic supply is both supplies and ammo. But fuel is separate resource at town/HQ level, so it's drawn separately.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Model1950
When I delete a unit where does:
1. The manpower go
2. equipment
3. fuel/ammo/supplies

1 and 2 go to the global pool, 3 is lost (90% sure).

[eskuche]

Morvael, thanks a bunch for all the answers. Relieves my OCD fears of spending vehicles. I think this is airgroups carrying own supplies makes the most sense from a gameplay perspective. It prevents and makes it unnecessary to do gamey things simply to get planes to fly. Cheers.

[morvael]

Yeah, but it would be very serious rework of the supply and air system to add supply stocks into air groups and wire them into supply system.

[morvael]

Not to mention gui rework required...

[eskuche]

I think it would have relatively the same effect as the current system outside a few edge cases, right?