TRACOM: Is it worth it?

[Q-Ball]

Just wondering what actual benefit is seen from moving elite pilots to TRACOM. I know what it's supposed to do....improve beginning experience of rookie pilots.

Does it work?

[witpqs]

I never use it. Playing Allies.

[dr.hal]

There are a lot of threads with speculation on this subject both for and against but I don't recall reading a definitive answer based upon player experimentation. I'm, like George, not a user of it, as I tend to use my best pilots on the front line.

[RangerJoe]

As Japanese, it helps by speeding up the process of training. The new pilots are not more experienced, they can go through training faster. Since each pilot in training costs 5 HI points per month, it can add up. Plus, it saves the pilots for later defensive work. Another good thing to do for either side is to put the experts in on map training units since it raises the overall experience and training level of the unit so the trainees are more likely to gain experience to the group average. Even just one or two will work in a unit.

[geofflambert]

Just Japanese. Just 10 IJA and 10 IJN. I got a huge flood of IJN pilots at one point due to TRACOM but after that the cupboard was mostly dry. For a few months I had more IJN recruits than I had open training slots for. I got a more modest jolt for the IJA. Is it worth it? Of course it is. You don't lose the pilots and can bring them back at any time. All pilots go KIA/WIA eventually but these don't.

[cantona2]

I do not use it. I use my top pilots at the front. I do have dedicated training squadrons that I fill out with rookies on 7-12-41 then i do a check at the end of every calender month and move those trained up pilots to the pool and repopulate with rookies. This is as Allies I may add.

[Kull]

As usual, the best solution is to "Ask Alfred":

ORIGINAL: Alfred

3. Unless you are prepared to make the necessary investment 10 pilots of a particular nationality, then you don't get much value out of sending pilots to TRACOM. To benefit from TRACOM you mst have 10 USA pilots to speed up the graduation rate of USA pilots. If you had a mixture of 6 USA + 1 Aust + 2 British + 1 USN, that would not work. You would need all 10 TRACOM pilots to be USA.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Training is not really improved by having experienced pilots amongst the rookies.

Pilots in TRACOM will speed up the graduation process. Pilots enter flight school and it takes them 12 months to graduate. TRACOM can push some pilots to complete a semester quicker, thereby ultimately graduating in less than 12 months. However additional trainees do not enter flight school to fill the spots vacated by the quicker graduating pilots.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Graduating pilots come out with experience which is within a range +/- of the national average. Having pilots in Tracom will aid reducing the negative spread but will not boost them to above the national average.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The working of TRACOM and pilot training/experiences is one of the most common subjects I have answered over the years.  The most recent thread is this:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3832564&mpage=1&key=tracom�

Of the two things which TRACOM does, only one is visible to the player viz the faster graduation.

1.  Faster graduation, if it occurs at all that month, does so only on the first of the month.

2.  Faster graduation occurs much less than 50% of the time.  Allied players, provided they have at least 10 pilots of a discrete nationality in TRACOM, tend to see it more often because they have many more nationalities available than do Japanese players who are limited to only two nationalities.

3.  Faster graduation is more likely to occur to nationalities in the lower national graduating pilot experience cohorts.

Alfred 

To summarize:

1) The primary benefit of TRACOM is to speed up the training process for some pilots, so they spend less than 12 months in training. This is particularly important for Japan since HI is precious and it costs "X" amount of HI per pilot per day ("X"=5 according to RangerJoe) while they are in the training system (i.e. prior to graduation and entering the reserve pool, at which point they cost nothing).

2) This is a REAL benefit since accelerated graduation does NOT result in additional pilots entering the training system to make up for the early graduates.

3) The second benefit is a bit more esoteric. Pilots do not graduate from training AT the "nationality experience level", but within a "plus-minus" range in which the "high point" is the national average. "Having pilots in Tracom will aid in reducing the negative spread but will not boost them to above the national average".

4) HOWEVER. In order for TRACOM to work, you need at least 10 TRACOM pilots of a given nationality to speed up the training of pilots of THAT nationality (For Japan, that means IJA and IJN are two different nationalities).

Edit: On reflection, I think some of the confusion is due to the term "National Average". It would better be described as "National Maximum".

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Just wondering what actual benefit is seen from moving elite pilots to TRACOM. I know what it's supposed to do....improve beginning experience of rookie pilots.

Does it work?

I think it 'works' by periodically advancing 'class groups' through the training more rapidly. 0-3 month recruits accelerate more rapidly into 4-6 month groups and so on. They will graduate with the same national stats that any 12+ month school graduates do, but the pilot group tranches may be larger.

Do you need more 12+ month graduates coming out of your flight school? Are your 'replacement' pools sucked dry? If not, then the accelerated training groups may not help you that much. But it *doesn't* improve beginning experience of rookie pilots in the replacement pool. Just (sometimes) gives you more of 'em.

With that being said, I use a limited amount of TRACOM slots. The acceleration of pilot tranches is nice when it happens, but I mostly save my top tier pilots for mid-late war for better planes with armor. Lowers the chance of my Subura Sakai getting shot up in some craptacular Oscar in 1942. Saving my primo pilots until I can get them into Franks or Georges will-I think-preserve my late-war competitiveness.

ETA: Cross-posted. Looks like this just got covered with Kull's post.

[GetAssista]

As Japan I routinely cull 80+ IJAAF pilots into "training instructors" and then TRACOM in the first months of the war, so that they man best planes later and not die in flimsy Oscars. I believe AI/PBEM makes no difference here. IJNAF is another story, there is always a shortage of fighter pilots i a PBEM.

TRACOM bonus is insignificant and too random to rely on. Although there seems to be a bug where oversized TRACOM (several hundred guys) can eventually increase IJNAF graduation xp to ridiculous levels. I have saves with 55-60+ xp quoted in the "Replacement pilots" intelligence screen stat in mid 43 stock 1 game against Allied AI, and it is really that high contrary to the scenario-set level of average 35 xp. I've seen it consistently in my AI games where I accumulate 200+ TRACOM for IJNAF. IJAAF has consistently smaller TRACOM cause of fewer starting high-xp pilots and flight school graduates are at healthy 35 xp as expected from the scenario. Dunno if 200+ TRACOM can break their school too.

[Kull]

References to this table come up a lot, and unfortunately it's parked in a very non-intuitive location (the Editor Manual), so here it is:

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Kull

References to this table come up a lot, and unfortunately it's parked in a very non-intuitive location (the Editor Manual), so here it is:

Oh no! Not the

RTFM

again! [:@]

[alanschu]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

As Japanese, it helps by speeding up the process of training. The new pilots are not more experienced, they can go through training faster. Since each pilot in training costs 5 HI points per month, it can add up. Plus, it saves the pilots for later defensive work. Another good thing to do for either side is to put the experts in on map training units since it raises the overall experience and training level of the unit so the trainees are more likely to gain experience to the group average. Even just one or two will work in a unit.

Nice I had no idea this was the case. *EDIT: Sounds like it might not be haha*

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: alanschu

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
As Japanese, it helps by speeding up the process of training. The new pilots are not more experienced, they can go through training faster. Since each pilot in training costs 5 HI points per month, it can add up. Plus, it saves the pilots for later defensive work. Another good thing to do for either side is to put the experts in on map training units since it raises the overall experience and training level of the unit so the trainees are more likely to gain experience to the group average. Even just one or two will work in a unit.

Nice I had no idea this was the case. *EDIT: Sounds like it might not be haha*

It might be, actually. Go here and read InfiniteMonkey posts https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4215656. He did many tests on training (the actual game, not some theoretical knowledge on how code should work). My own tests coincide with his results when I did those. But he tested much more

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: alanschu

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
As Japanese, it helps by speeding up the process of training. The new pilots are not more experienced, they can go through training faster. Since each pilot in training costs 5 HI points per month, it can add up. Plus, it saves the pilots for later defensive work. Another good thing to do for either side is to put the experts in on map training units since it raises the overall experience and training level of the unit so the trainees are more likely to gain experience to the group average. Even just one or two will work in a unit.

Nice I had no idea this was the case. *EDIT: Sounds like it might not be haha*

It might be, actually. Go here and read InfiniteMonkey posts https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4215656. He did many tests on training (the actual game, not some theoretical knowledge on how code should work). My own tests coincide with his results when I did those. But he tested much more

I'll assume you posted the wrong link by mistake, because "TRACOM" doesn't appear once in that entire thread.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: alanschu

Nice I had no idea this was the case. *EDIT: Sounds like it might not be haha*

It might be, actually. Go here and read InfiniteMonkey posts https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4215656. He did many tests on training (the actual game, not some theoretical knowledge on how code should work). My own tests coincide with his results when I did those. But he tested much more

I'll assume you posted the wrong link by mistake, because "TRACOM" doesn't appear once in that entire thread.

I think the thread linked was a departure from the TRACOM OP subject header. GetAssista's comments are pertaining to the value (or lack thereof) of keeping a TRACOM-eligible stud pilot in a training squadron in order to accelerate training of noobs in field. At least that's the way I read it.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: alanschu

Nice I had no idea this was the case. *EDIT: Sounds like it might not be haha*

It might be, actually. Go here and read InfiniteMonkey posts https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4215656. He did many tests on training (the actual game, not some theoretical knowledge on how code should work). My own tests coincide with his results when I did those. But he tested much more

I'll assume you posted the wrong link by mistake, because "TRACOM" doesn't appear once in that entire thread.

Nope, I referred to the second statement of the two. Because the first one is obviously clear for everyone here. It is the second one ("another good thing") that some people still have doubts about.

[RangerJoe]

7.1 PILOT EXPERIENCE:

Orange means that that experience increased in the last month. Green means the last day.

tm.asp?m=2263271

Pilots can lose an EXP point if their plane is damage or lost due to an operational loss.

tm.asp?m=2542861

Skills are what counts for most individual actions, including training.

Experience, in general, counts in non-combat areas.

If you leave a VMF/VMB on a CV for 90 days it becomes CV capable

FAQ / Info for Newb's

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Nope, I referred to the second statement of the two. Because the first one is obviously clear for everyone here. It is the second one ("another good thing") that some people still have doubts about.

There's an easier way to make your case. Show the relevant text from the manual. In this case, we have item #5 (circled below) from the Pilot Addendum which clearly states that the presence of 80+ pilots "increases the chance of successful training". That is an answer which is crystal clear. No guesswork or need for debate.

By contrast, the same addendum also tells us to be wary of blanket statements such as "overall unit experience levels" matter. That is only POTENTIALLY true. Overall unit experience level factors are only applicable to pilots who have an individual value of "less than 50" when you combine their 1) experience, 2) kills, and 3) missions. In other words, it only matters - at most - to a subset of pilots being trained in that group, and possibly to none at all.

[RangerJoe]

Yes, it is difficult to train a new skill when the experience is over 50. So your trainees will do better before they see combat or even do missions. That is why 100% training is better for new pilots instead of a partial percentage along with an actual mission. So train them before they do missions, then send them out to fly combat.

[Professor Chaos]

ORIGINAL: Kull
There's an easier way to make your case. Show the relevant text from the manual. In this case, we have item #5 (circled below) from the Pilot Addendum which clearly states that the presence of 80+ pilots "increases the chance of successful training". That is an answer which is crystal clear. No guesswork or need for debate.

That part of the Training Addendum seems to describe two different ways to gain experience and skill: (a) training missions, and (b) a separate chance every day, based on factors 1-5, which includes the presence of 80+ veterans. Do veterans also improve the effectiveness of training missions?