M6 heavy tank

sven · Post by **sven** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 8:32 pm

Originally posted by Richard Harris:
The only thing I could find on the M6, comes from "Tank Data World War II, Aberdeen Proving Grounds Series" WE Inc. Old Greenwich, Conn (no date)
Armour: Hull front: 5" (127mm/?)(angle similar to Lee/Grant?)
Hull sides: 2-2.5" (51-64mm/?)(Looks pretty near vertical except for some slight angle on the upper hull.)
Turret front: 3.5" (89mm/?)(Angle like Sherman, not sure if thickness includes mantlet, I'd say not.)
Turret side: 3.5" (89mm/?)(Very slight angle, if any.)
Ammo stowage: 3" - 75rds
37mm - 340rds
.50 cal - 8,000rds
.30 cal - 4,000rds
First manufactured in 1941 by the Baldwin Locomotive Co.
I hope this is of some help, there is more, but it seems like you had most of the rest of it.
As for the "Deutsche Uberpanzer!, American Supertank!, Deutsche Uberpanzer!!, American Supertank!!, DEUTSCHE UBERPANZER!!!, AMEEERICAN SUUUPERTANK!!!, DUCK SEASON!< RABBIT SEASON!! etc..." arguments, I have three words to say to you. "Black Prince" and "Tortoise" :p beeepbeep

Thank you Richard. I am hoping to find some overhead photos of it.

regards,
sven

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 10:12 pm

Hey Sven, how about bribing a telephone lineman to let you up in the bucket and snap a quikie from overhead!!!

Also, I made a Tortoise icon and unit awhile back, not sure if it is in you alls shp files or not. I have it in my personal, I'll check when I get home. Black Prince, huh, hmmm.......lemme see...

Richard Harris · Post by **Richard Harris** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:03 pm

I believe SPWW2 has a Black Prince unit. (icon etc...) A Tortoise would be nice as well to go into the fray against all those Mauses (what is the German for mice [pl.] anyhow??

) After all the US has their T28... Something big'n silly for the Brit's would be just the trick old boy, eh what?

Regards

R.

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:31 pm

I think the point that should be taken here is that the M6 was never in combat.

Numerous exotic weapons from various countries would be fun to play with, but if we want to keep a reasonably historical flavor to SPWaW then the criteria for a weapon being in an Oob should be whether it was used in "general" combat.

Not just built or tested or used in one or two battles, but in general use. Issued. Got shot at a lot. THAT should be the deciding factor for inclusion in an Oob.

sven · Post by **sven** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:42 pm

Originally posted by REMF:
I think the point that should be taken here is that the M6 was never in combat.

Numerous exotic weapons from various countries would be fun to play with, but if we want to keep a reasonably historical flavor to SPWaW then the criteria for a weapon being in an Oob should be whether it was used in "general" combat.

Not just built or tested or used in one or two battles, but in general use. Issued. Got shot at a lot. THAT should be the deciding factor for inclusion in an Oob.

REMF I think having something as just a design tool is not unbalancing. I do not want the M6 to replace the Sherman as the base tank in PBEM, or Network play. I just wonder how it would have changed US tactics in torch.

I will always believe having more options for scenario designers not less is a good thing. I mean no offense for anyone. Hope this does not mean I am a tad hypocritical for thinking that the Goliath shouldn't be in while the Uhu is sort of okay.(The Goliath is a different class of weapon and the US has lost a lot of advantages Goliath could unbalance PBEM)

regards,
sven

sven · Post by **sven** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:43 pm

Originally posted by Warhorse:
Hey Sven, how about bribing a telephone lineman to let you up in the bucket and snap a quikie from overhead!!! Also, I made a Tortoise icon and unit awhile back, not sure if it is in you alls shp files or not. I have it in my personal, I'll check when I get home. Black Prince, huh, hmmm.......lemme see...

Warhorse I will see what I can do. Failing that I may climb a tree and try to get one. :p

sven

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:06 am

If there is going to be a upgrading in arnaments for "what if" scenarios, then all country`s should have the advantages of it, therfore it would be nice to have js-7 in thees "what if" scenarios too and it would be powerfull enouhg to deel with any oponent (Mouse) ho is fool enough to get in front off its path. http://history.vif2.ru/is4.html
what if !!!!! :p

sven · Post by **sven** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:15 am

Originally posted by Tortfeasor:
If there is going to be a upgrading in arnaments for "what if" scenarios, then all country`s should have the advantages of it, therfore it would be nice to have js-7 in thees "what if" scenarios too and it would be powerfull enouhg to deel with any oponent (Mouse) ho is fool enough to get in front off its path. http://history.vif2.ru/is4.html
what if !!!!! :p

post the stats

Richard Harris · Post by **Richard Harris** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 10:27 am

If there is space available in an OOB, I see no problem with hypotheticals (of any nation.) They can be relegated to the "Dec 49er" slot and will therefore be available to scenario designers and so on, without being available to the masses who are trying to play a 'realistic' game.

Flashfyre · Post by **Flashfyre** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 10:39 am

Before worrying about how to get a "hypothetical" US vehicle into the OOB, how about we concentrate on 2 units that are missing and should be in....the M4 13-ton Prime Mover and the M5 18-ton high speed Prime Mover. Yes, I know, they aren't tanks....but they were used extensively for all field artillery batteries. In fact, the 155mm, 4.5", and 8" gun batteries were listed on the TO&E as "tractor-towed" batteries. Since almost every other nation has armored prime movers, I wonder why the US doesn't. And I have pictures of scale models for each one. There is even a place here in Pennsylvania that has an MR tractor FOR SALE! For $2,500, you can own and rebuild an original, made-in-the-USA, M4 combat vet.

So, how about it, guys and gals? Don't we, the GIs, deserve to have a vehicle that can haul those big guns around? Even some of the 105mm howitzers were towed with tractors, not trucks or Jeeps......and those guns are available as on-board units.

Brummagem · Post by **Brummagem** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 10:37 pm

Hey Sven , Ammo,
Sorry for not getting right back....been out of town.
I only brought up the Land Crusier because I thought it was outragous. Something that big would have been a nightmare to even get out of the design stage and no amount of camo would have saved it from air attack. Life-expectency would have been very low.
I do think letting the Americans have a heavy tank is a great idea. A Jumbo Sherman can only stand up to the Tigers for so long.
You have to admit though the idea off driving around something 35 meters long, powered by submarine diesels would be a hoot.

Voriax · Post by **Voriax** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:38 pm

Originally posted by Warhorse:
Hey Sven, how about bribing a telephone lineman to let you up in the bucket and snap a quikie from overhead!!!

Hey Warhorse

Not quite an overhead pic but would this be of any help? http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/heavytanks/usht-M6.jpg

Voriax

sven · Post by **sven** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:52 pm

Originally posted by Voriax:

Hey Warhorse

Not quite an overhead pic but would this be of any help? http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/heavytanks/usht-M6.jpg

Voriax

That shot gets the gist of the look of it. The only really odd thing about it is the 37mm coax would make it look like a two cannoned turret.

sven

p.s. I am still trying to find or get one.

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:26 am

Voriax, thanks, that will help alot!! It has the non-production model rear facing AAMG,and the cupola , but it gives a great view of the deck!! I'm compiling ideas....

JTGEN · Post by **JTGEN** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:17 pm

Hell, put it in the '49. If the Maus is in oob then this should be there too, at least there a bit more of these around. I would like to fight these as a German and also try as US.

What I would like to have is a T34 with german long 75mm. Could it get better?

I would think the Soviets would have tried that experimentaly. Any info???

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 7:34 pm

A side note:

It's suicide and extremely uneconomic to build monsters like the P1000 and P1500 when the enemy has air superiority...how easy is it not to hit a tank that occupies 400m^2 of ground?

Brummagem · Post by **Brummagem** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:12 pm

What do you mean....Look how long the Bismark and Tirpatz lasted...Oh I see your point.

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:38 pm

Sven,

Icons for both the M6, and the Black Prince are finished! Do you have any definite slope values for the M6?

sven · Post by **sven** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:40 pm

Originally posted by Warhorse:
Sven,

Icons for both the M6, and the Black Prince are finished! Do you have any definite slope values for the M6?

No, but I am looking into it. I shall either measure them myself or delve deeper to find the angle. Thanks for your effort.

sven

sven · Post by **sven** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 12:52 am

Still looking....

The slope is VERY similar to the M4.

Regards,
sven