Gibraltar and the Movemen of Axis Ships

[canuckgamer]

Historically, weren't submarines the only ships that could slip by Gibraltar to move between the Atlantic and the Med and vice versa? From my game experience any Axis ship even transports can move between the two without any problem. Maybe this should be looked at in the next update.

[Sugar]

That's a feature, not a bug. [:D]

[crispy131313]

Historically the Royal Navy has a significant naval presence operating from Gibraltar (Force H), if this was duplicated in your game I’m sure the Axis won’t slip through.

[PvtBenjamin]

I do think some restrictions on Navies (Brit/Germ/US)in the Med would be a good idea, that is all the German/Brit/US Navy shouldn't be in the Med. Some portion of the Italian Navy should have to stay in the Med also. Currently you just need to respond.

The Allies should strongly try to keep Spain out of the war and keep Gibraltar. Losing neither Spain or Gibraltar are not game enders for the Allies, still very winnable.

It is very possible for Axis to get Spain to enter by diplo (never changed). When playing the Allies I try aggressively to keep Spain out diplomatically and have failed many times.

[Sugar]

It is very possible for Axis to get Spain to enter by diplo (never changed)

Of course that changed massively during the last updates, Diplo hits are much smaller and the alternave is via Algeria and DE 603, which got nerfed by upping the needed leaning from 30 to 60%, while declaring war on Vichy, Algeria or Tunesia will likely lead to Franco moving away from Axis leaning.

If you want to keep Axis surface ships from entering/leaving the Med, place sufficient parts of the RN in Gibraltar. And before demanding changes from a very well balanced game, improve your gameplay in the first place. As you already noticed, you'll get valuable answers from the community helping you.

[PvtBenjamin]

Yes diplo hits changed but it goes both ways and its still very possible for Axis to get Spain diplomatically. Especially with the fact that US entry can now easily be pushed to Jan/Feb '42 (w/ no major diplo).

Old DE 603 was a joke and you should be ashamed for supporting it.

[Sugar]

I'll let the community decide wether anyone has to be ashamed of something, and who that might be.

Where did I support the DE in this discussion, or at all? IIrc, all related players incl. yourself and KZ agreed the game to be well balanced after the changes regarding DE 603. How you can read in KZ's AAR, I proved the Axis can win without Spain. But that was before the changes regarding Diplo hits, nerfing tac. bombers, subs and supply and doublechitting major research.

I doubt it`s still very possible to get Spain via Diplo, unless unexperienced players fail to counter (and it didn't happen either in the AA or in my following tourney matches). However, you cannot be certain this way, and the only other option is to take "All of France", otherwise the Axis won`t ever be able to get Spain. DoWing Algeria or Tunesia will likely drive Vichy to the Allies, and DoWing Vichy itself will likely deentice Franco. In many games I couldn`t even manage to get the necessary 60% via Diplo and had to take Gibraltar and Casablanca to succeed.

Yes diplo hits changed but it goes both ways

How should that happen? The only thing that changed is the range base of a hit; the probability stays the same. If you got the same number of hits, the outcome will be less than before.

[PvtBenjamin]

You are certainly one of, if not the, most knowledgeable people in the forum. The new version is a tremendous improvement and IMO very balanced. You should give it a try. You would really enjoy it and it would make your comments on the current game more credible.

I aggressively try to keep Spain out diplomatically and have failed on several occasions. Im not sure if as often as before but it still happens. Rarely is Spain diplo leaning Allied before the fall of France and again the US often enters much later now. At a minimum the Axis can certainly obtain 60% and pull DE 603 right before US enters.

IMO the game currently does a good job of incorporating the historic possibility of Spain entering. If the probability was increased some I think that would be fine. The Allies still have a large MPP advantage later in the game and can definitely win if Spain joins the Axis.


Amended: Sugar, If I am wrong in you opposing the changes to DE 603 I apologize.