Japanese Strategic Options: Late Bonus Phase

[Q-Ball]

I have a game going and I've already figured out a plan post-Singapore falling. But I'm curious how everyone views the various options you have as the Empire once Singapore is cleared out and the DEI more or less secure. Those events free up alot of strength for deployment elsewhere, and curious what everyone's opinion is of the options, pro and con. Assume as you provide feedback that neither side has lost anything super important, like carriers.

It seems like you can divide options into "BOLD" and more "MEASURED" options; if you want to do something bold, like conquer all of Australia or India, you have to decide to it and commit to it early, and also understand you'll have to take some initial risks, like landing in Western India in March.

So, broadly, how do you consider pros and cons of various options? As I was going through my own planning, I could see several "BOLD" and "NEAR" options, including but not limited to:

BOLD:
--CONQUEST OF INDIA: Early landings on West Coast and Ceylon, clearing British fleet completely out of the Indian Ocean. In the old days before off-map movement you could destroy the Royal Navy this way, though not possible now.
--CONQUEST OF AUSTRALIA: NIIRC, a couple players got everything but Sydney and got stuck there
--HAWAII: I have a game where my opponent is invading Hawaii; I would classify as BOLD

MEASURED (Going Around the Map)
--Easter India: Objective clearing out and maybe trapping units in Burma, score some Industry points
--Ceylon: Easy to take, hard to hold, but you can clean out some units this way
--Western Australia: Perth is a major base, but has some challenges to taking
--Northern Australia/Darwin
--Northeast Australia down to Brisbane (IIRC, one hex further triggers Aussie reinforcements)
--Expansion toward Noumea, Fiji
--Expansion toward Canton, Christmas islands, Midway
--Aleutians

As I was reviewing, saw pros and cons on all of these, curious what everyone's thoughts are!

[Canoerebel]

The taking of bases/places/regions doesn't give Japan any organic victory points. You can take Pearl Harbor but you'll lose it, so no points for the base. etc.

So key questions for Japan: (1) is it likely that the operation will earn Japan 1:1 or better in points? Can Japan apply force superiority and will the Allies defend? (2) When the Allies counterattack eventually, is the location well-configured for Japanese defense at a favorable ratio (or, if Japan already made enough points, a favorable withdrawal without giving the Allies a chance to score in the counterattack).

If you're facing an inexperienced Allied player (or an aggressive one), he might fight anywhere, so that any point on the map is important and helpful. If you're facing an experienced or more cautious Allied player, he might not worry about most of the points you reference. Does it really matter if Japan takes Fiji in early '42 if the Allies invade Wake in '43? Similarly, the Allied player doesn't have to have the Aleutians to prosecute the late war. If he does, he'll use 'em. If he doesn't, big deal.

Of all the places you reference, the heart of Oz (Melbourne to Sydney) will worry the Allied player; ditto the Karachi to Bombay stretch of India. But either of those takes an all-out commitment by Japan, and India is nearly impossible against an experienced Allied player.

Pearl Harbor could be helpful if Japan, from day one, is intent on strat bombing the Western USA and/or taking out the big industrial centers by capture, like Portland and LA.

Some of the best Japanese play I've seen didn't go after any of those places and still played well into 1945.

[Canoerebel]

Eradicating the Allies in China is probably the single-most effective thing a Japanese player can do.

[RangerJoe]

I would suggest trying to take the Industrial center of Calcutta and the region around it. Also take Ceylon. The plan should be to wreck/destroy as many British and Indian formations early since their replacement rates are so low and early on, the Indian Army is not highly experienced. If you can grab Socotra as well and put long ranged Nells on it, reinforcements from Aden can be interdicted. The same thing with Diego Garcia for interdicting reinforcements from Cape Town which is were any American units shipped from CONUS would show up.

You don't need to garrison every Indian base, leave them empty for the partisans to work on the airfields. If the enemy recaptures it, you can bomb the units there before the airfield can be repaired. Retake it and abandon it again. Do this enough and any industry should get wrecked which will need imported supplies to repair. Those imported supplies will then not be available for his units. If the enemy does not repair them, then diminishes India as an on map supply source.

This should take the CBI theatre out of the enemies offensives option unless it is reinforced by American and Australian forces. Those that are there can't be used in the Pacific regions. But protect yourself against these reinforcements so don't have just token defenses.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I would suggest trying to take the Industrial center of Calcutta and the region around it. Also take Ceylon. The plan should be to wreck/destroy as many British and Indian formations early since their replacement rates are so low and early on, the Indian Army is not highly experienced. If you can grab Socotra as well and put long ranged Nells on it, reinforcements from Aden can be interdicted. The same thing with Diego Garcia for interdicting reinforcements from Cape Town which is were any American units shipped from CONUS would show up.

You don't need to garrison every Indian base, leave them empty for the partisans to work on the airfields. If the enemy recaptures it, you can bomb the units there before the airfield can be repaired. Retake it and abandon it again. Do this enough and any industry should get wrecked which will need imported supplies to repair. Those imported supplies will then not be available for his units. If the enemy does not repair them, then diminishes India as an on map supply source.

This should take the CBI theatre out of the enemies offensives option unless it is reinforced by American and Australian forces. Those that are there can't be used in the Pacific regions. But protect yourself against these reinforcements so don't have just token defenses.

Well, I have already have a plan, but that's an interesting perspective on the Burma theater.

And Dan is totally right, annihilating the Chinese is the best thing the Empire can do....it's just very hard to do that with stacking limits and good Allied play!

Keep the feedback coming! I think Dan is spot-on that harvesting points for locations is futile, because the Allies are just going to take it back eventually

[RangerJoe]

But harvesting locations for the unit's VPs is good. If you can capture supplies and fuel then return them to where they are needed, even better.

For China, try not to destroy too many units until Chungking and the other city where the replacements come in are captured. There, Chinese over stacking is to your benefit.

[inqistor]

Australia is kinda pointless, unless you want to score some Strategic Points, or destroy factories. Plus you would fight all those Restricted Divisions.

India - the same. Impossible to defend, as Allies can send whole invasion fleet from off map.


Large enough buffer between China, and India, so no supply can fly, would be nice. But you can conquer whole China instead.

Noumea, Fiji, or Christmas Island seems interesting, as it extends US supply route, and allows serious raiding effort.


Generally, you either want to destroy permanently Allies potential (by converting factories, or conquering Bases, where Ships will shows up), or force Allies to commit, and lose. Preferably CVs, and lots of large LCUs.

[Anachro]

Hmmm...should I post in this thread? [:D] I think Japan should totally try to conquer the UK during the late Bonus phase.

[Chickenboy]

India is a tar baby. With the Allied ability to rail reinforcements at will around the country, failure to capture the entirety of the country=failure for the strategy. Possible exception to Ceylon for reasons given below.

Dan is right in not relying on base VPs for help. When they get flipped again later war they'll no longer be in the calculus for VP calculation.

Think about where you can 'harvest' the most permanent VPs. I look at killing LCUs. Not beating them up and making them retreat, but liquidation/ surrender en masse.

Early war, I'm talking islands. Where do the Allies have the most juicy LCUs in an island that cannot be reinforced / retreated from? Singapore. Luzon. Java. Sumatra. Hong Kong. These all stand out as no-brainers for their resources/oil/fuel/strategic positioning.

What next? So-called stage II goals? Much tougher. Ceylon fits the qualities above. Some high-quality LCUs that can be surrounded and liquidated before they can be reinforced. Where else? Suva/Samoa? Pago Pago? Papua-New Guinea? Rabaul? New Caledonia? New Zealand? All are considerations pending the response of the Allied player to initial Japanese forays. Make the Allies fight in indefensible terrain without hope of reinforcement. Alternatively, an ill-advised Allied reinforcement effort too early in the match may lead to significant fleet destruction (and more VPs).

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

India is a tar baby. With the Allied ability to rail reinforcements at will around the country, failure to capture the entirety of the country=failure for the strategy. Possible exception to Ceylon for reasons given below.

Dan is right in not relying on base VPs for help. When they get flipped again later war they'll no longer be in the calculus for VP calculation.

Think about where you can 'harvest' the most permanent VPs. I look at killing LCUs. Not beating them up and making them retreat, but liquidation/ surrender en masse.

Early war, I'm talking islands. Where do the Allies have the most juicy LCUs in an island that cannot be reinforced / retreated from? Singapore. Luzon. Java. Sumatra. Hong Kong. These all stand out as no-brainers for their resources/oil/fuel/strategic positioning.

What next? So-called stage II goals? Much tougher. Ceylon fits the qualities above. Some high-quality LCUs that can be surrounded and liquidated before they can be reinforced. Where else? Suva/Samoa? Pago Pago? Papua-New Guinea? Rabaul? New Caledonia? New Zealand? All are considerations pending the response of the Allied player to initial Japanese forays. Make the Allies fight in indefensible terrain without hope of reinforcement. Alternatively, an ill-advised Allied reinforcement effort too early in the match may lead to significant fleet destruction (and more VPs).

You should take Allied strategy into account. If he's gone full blown Sir Robin, you're not going to kill as many units. Then going after territory makes more sense.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

India is a tar baby. With the Allied ability to rail reinforcements at will around the country, failure to capture the entirety of the country=failure for the strategy. Possible exception to Ceylon for reasons given below.

Dan is right in not relying on base VPs for help. When they get flipped again later war they'll no longer be in the calculus for VP calculation.

Think about where you can 'harvest' the most permanent VPs. I look at killing LCUs. Not beating them up and making them retreat, but liquidation/ surrender en masse.

Early war, I'm talking islands. Where do the Allies have the most juicy LCUs in an island that cannot be reinforced / retreated from? Singapore. Luzon. Java. Sumatra. Hong Kong. These all stand out as no-brainers for their resources/oil/fuel/strategic positioning.

What next? So-called stage II goals? Much tougher. Ceylon fits the qualities above. Some high-quality LCUs that can be surrounded and liquidated before they can be reinforced. Where else? Suva/Samoa? Pago Pago? Papua-New Guinea? Rabaul? New Caledonia? New Zealand? All are considerations pending the response of the Allied player to initial Japanese forays. Make the Allies fight in indefensible terrain without hope of reinforcement. Alternatively, an ill-advised Allied reinforcement effort too early in the match may lead to significant fleet destruction (and more VPs).

You should take Allied strategy into account. If he's gone full blown Sir Robin, you're not going to kill as many units. Then going after territory makes more sense.

Yeah, sure. I'll take Ceylon for free if he'll completely evacuate it. My problem (OK, one of my problems) is that I don't know ahead of time where the Allies will bail from until I invest it. In the unlikely event that the Allies abandon New Zealand, how will I know unless I land there in strength? Even then, I've also got to make sure that I don't 'take territory just to take territory' and-in so doing-overextend my own lines for the inevitable Allied reprisal.

[mind_messing]

CR is right about VPs, so Japan needs to generate permanent VPs.

To that end, a campaign for New Caledonia, followed up by firebombing raids on the Eastern Australian coast.

If the Coral Sea is a Japanese lake, the KB has the chance to run wild, backed by long range bombers from Port Moresby and Nouméa.

Allied options to counter are limited until later in 1942, and even then it's an uphill struggle

[spence]

Eradicating the Allies in China is probably the single-most effective thing a Japanese player can do.

Totally a game thing given the 3 year stalemate in China after the initial invasion while the rest of the world pretty much let Japan do as they pleased. Declaring war on the US and UK was not the key to breaking the stalemate in China.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: spence

Eradicating the Allies in China is probably the single-most effective thing a Japanese player can do.

Totally a game thing given the 3 year stalemate in China after the initial invasion while the rest of the world pretty much let Japan do as they pleased. Declaring war on the US and UK was not the key to breaking the stalemate in China.

What's your elegant solution to better represent the complex political and military situation in China at the time then?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I would had taken most of China off-map; with only coastal regions, the Burma border and Manchuria on map

That said, totally invading China is as unrealistic as totally invading India or Australia; so I don't object that the Japanese player goes for it

[RADM.Yamaguchi]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

CR is right about VPs, so Japan needs to generate permanent VPs.

To that end, a campaign for New Caledonia, followed up by firebombing raids on the Eastern Australian coast.

If the Coral Sea is a Japanese lake, the KB has the chance to run wild, backed by long range bombers from Port Moresby and Nouméa.

Allied options to counter are limited until later in 1942, and even then it's an uphill struggle

Mind Messing, could you please explain more about firebombing raids. Are they air raids using Netties? KB? What do they target? Airfield attack? Port attack? City attack? Ground Attack? Or are you talking about Bombardment TFs hitting them?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

it is in the manual; pg152

"When a city is attacked, there is a chance that a fire can be started. A fire level shows up
when the mouse cursor is rolled over a base, just above the list of enemy industry. City attacks
on Manpower have a chance of creating high fire levels that will cause damage to any and
all industry. The fire level can get as high as 40 million, and is divided by 10 each 12 hours
as the fire is put out. Very high levels will continue to cause damage. The greater the target
manpower, the easier it is to get a fire storm going."

[RADM.Yamaguchi]

Thanks Jorge

[JoV]

Didn't see it noted anywhere (or may have just missed it), but assuming this is for scenario 2? Some of those goals seem a little lofty to me for scenario 1 [:D]

[RADM.Yamaguchi]

if you want to destroy ships being built what would you target? City attack? Are there any building in Australia or New Zealand?