Gibraltar

[canuckgamer]

I thought that historically, the British holding Gibraltar prevented Axis naval vessels except for possibly subs entering or exiting the Med. In the game there are transit hexes for Axis naval vessels to the Atlantic from the Med and vice versa. I am curious why these transit hexes were added and what they represent. Thanks.

[PvtBenjamin]

I believe you are correct, quite a few German u-boats made the perilous journey but not many (if any) surface ships.

Some sort of limitation on German surface ships and penalty (rough seas ish) on u-boats would be a good idea.

The issue is to be fair then there would have to be a limitation on Allied ships in the Med. Gamer would put overwhelming number of Brit ships in the Med which wouldn't be historically viable or fair either.

There should also be a limitation on how much of the Italian Navy can leave the Med.

[Mithrilotter]

I recall in Beta testing that Bill said that Spain was Axis friendly. Franco allowed German agents to set up infrared detectors in Spanish Morocco that could tell when Allied ships were in the area. Those German agents would then radio Axis ships when it was safe to pass through.

[Markiss]

I recently discovered that the Axis does not actually have to use the transit hexes to go through the strait. If the Axis bombard the lower port at Gibraltar to a strength of 0(which is very easy since it only starts as a 5), Axis warships may transit the straight freely.

I wonder if this is working as intended, since once the Axis player realizes this, Gibraltar really is no obstacle. I always thought you had to take the Gibraltar hex itself, which is much more difficult than just bombarding a port, in order to control the strait. But in the game I am playing, my opponent has done this several times, so it obviously works. On the replay, it looks like the warships are actually traveling through the port hex once it is damaged.

Why damaging the port facilities, instead of the fortress itself, would make it easier for an enemy warship to transit the strait, is a mystery, but it is so.

[Hubert Cater]

Yes this is indeed working as intended, and it works for ports as the port is what physically occupies the sea hex in game.

[Markiss]

Hubert,
I am confused. Your post above seems to say that once a port is reduced to strength zero, it can be entered by opposing naval forces. I have observed this take place at Gibraltar, and your post confirmed my observation.

Accordingly, I devised a strategy in my latest PBEM game to take advantage of this rule. My Axis opponent did not seize Norway, so I planned to invade it with the UK. Sweden has been diploed into the game on the Axis side, so I must take Oslo on the first turn, or I will be overwhelmed with Swedish and Finnish reinforcements and the invasion will fail. The port blocks access to Oslo, so I landed a unit next to the restricted water hex to get access to the port, then used my Battleships to bombard the port to strength zero.

Now, my amphibious transport can enter the port hex and land a unit directly into Olso, conquering Norway and turning the game around for me.

Except, I inexplicably cannot enter the port hex, even at strength zero. Why not? Why does this work for Gibraltar but not Oslo? I designed my entire strategy around this rule, only to find that it does not apply everywhere. I now have a bunch of units, including multiple HQ's, that are all going to die in short order, and this tournament match is effectively ruined.

I would just like to understand why this happened, so that I don't throw away any more tournament matches in future.

What is the rule, once and for all, and to which hexes does it apply?

[BillRunacre]

Hi Markiss

I wonder, is it possible that that works for naval units and not for the amphibious transport?

[Markiss]

I did not consider that Amphibious units might be treated differently than other naval units, maybe that is it. I'm not sure why they would be be treated differently in this case. If a port's defenses have been destroyed, and, say, a destroyer can now waltz into port unmolested, why couldn't a amphibious assault ship? They would seem to be equally vulnerable to shore fire.

I would just like to know for sure that it is, so that I understand the rule and can apply it properly in the future.

So, can warships enter any port reduced to zero? Or is there something special about Oslo's port? Or is there something special about amphibious assault ships that doesn't allow them to enter? I just want to be clear.

Thanks for the response.

[BPINisBACK]

If you want... You can took me back Oslo and we try again... [:D][:D][:D]

[Markiss]

Yes, I was ultimately able to take Oslo because my opponent did not strongly respond to my invasion, but I got lucky! His troops must have gotten caught away from railheads.

It could have, and probably should have, ended in disaster.

But I will take it.

[BPINisBACK]

ORIGINAL: Markiss

Yes, I was ultimately able to take Oslo because my opponent did not strongly respond to my invasion, but I got lucky! His troops must have gotten caught away from railheads.

It could have, and probably should have, ended in disaster.

But I will take it.

War in Scandinavia... let's see what happends, mate!

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Markiss

I did not consider that Amphibious units might be treated differently than other naval units, maybe that is it. I'm not sure why they would be be treated differently in this case. If a port's defenses have been destroyed, and, say, a destroyer can now waltz into port unmolested, why couldn't a amphibious assault ship? They would seem to be equally vulnerable to shore fire.

I would just like to know for sure that it is, so that I understand the rule and can apply it properly in the future.

So, can warships enter any port reduced to zero? Or is there something special about Oslo's port? Or is there something special about amphibious assault ships that doesn't allow them to enter? I just want to be clear.

Thanks for the response.

Oslo's port is the same as all others so it must be that amphibious transports are treated differently, and that may protect from gamey/exploits in some circumstances.