OT - The New Coronavirus

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RFalvo69
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RFalvo69 »

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Even before it hits? China is the 'worlds factory'. There are shortages of materials because the world practically put all of it's eggs in one basket. Many of those eggs are pharmaceuticals. If you use the common pain reliever acetaminophen then you will be impacted. Further, if you have high blood pressure that is one of the OTC pain relievers that is used. It has hit in China. No even before.

I don't doubt that (I don't have real data). However I still maintain that the reaction to the Coronavirus is, starting from the single individuals to the World economy, more like a panicked one than a rational one.

Over and over we are told that masks only help if worn by the sick, not by the healthy - yet you see scores of people going around with masks. Masks are the new Linus' blanket.

Over and over we are told about both the simple procedures that will lower significantly the possibility to catch the virus *and* how it can be really dangerous for a specific strata of the population - yet people behave like if the virus is deadly all around, and it is "out there", right out of your door, ready to get you.

News about new cases usually use this form: "Guy is sick with the Coronavirus, 120 colleagues in the same office are being tested". After a while "are being tested" loses its meaning. Maybe another one got it, but it is the "120" number that remains in the public consciousness.

Just to add happiness to happiness, we have the merry people who produce fake news just to have fun. Every then and now Twitter "targets" a place and explains how there are "uncontrolled cases" running around. Only a few people wonder how those who created this news can know about "uncontrolled" cases. This is only an example.

And politicians, in the only truly worldwide coordinated action, bicker between themselves, blaming the rival party for both the inefficient measures and the "unneeded scare". Of course this political bickering always starts with the declaration that "this emergency is not a political thing and it should not be"; before the finger pointing starts.

Meanwhile, in the Real World, I just returned from a meeting with the other Pub/Bar/Restaurant/Hotel owners in my area. The situation is grim in all Southern Italy, with drops in tourism (including cancellations) reaching 50%-60%. Sicily is hit the hardest, because they have an all year around tourism season, but also here in Calabria we are suffering from half-empty places.

There is no reason for this. We do not have the Coronavirus in Southern Italy (OK, yet). Travel between North and South right now is minimal. Some proposed a reason for this crisis: foreign tourists do not fear the virus by itself: what they do fear is being unable to return home "from Italy". Make of it what you want.

And now it seems that the export sector will get an hit, too, because "of fears that the virus can survive on the goods". Already orders for wines, foods and other edibles are being cut. OTOH, others say that buying online will only increase, as a measure to get what you want while remaining at home.

Maybe. Meanwhile the Corona brand of beer is being left on the supermarket shelves. I thought it was a joke. It isn't. Corona lost 285 million dollars in the first two months of 2020. My mother guessed that "there is a second virus going around - a virus that hits the brain the way computer viruses hit computers."

What a mess. And, just to underline once again, I firmly believe that it is the mess that is causing panic and economic collapse, not the virus by itself
BTW, Bob was talking about deaths and said so.

I know. It is the reason is why I underlined that you can't really compare the two percentages.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by Zorch »

"Meanwhile the Corona brand of beer is being left on the supermarket shelves. I thought it was a joke. It isn't. Corona lost 285 million dollars in the first two months of 2020."

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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by wodin »

Think I read it has a 2% lethality rate. Storm in a tea cup.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by Mobius »

ORIGINAL: wodin

Think I read it has a 2% lethality rate. Storm in a tea cup.
That is more or less an overall average. It is very low for the young but grows for older people. Seems to be about 10% for the elderly and medically frail.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by Zovs »

Nope. Just... Nope.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by DD696 »

Hey, that's me!. I'm 73, yeah, I am an old fart, and I have asthma - or COPD, depends on which doctor I talk to. So, when the crap hits the fan I'm right in the line of fire. Just like many of those here on this site. Out with the old and in with the new.
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PipFromSlitherine
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by PipFromSlitherine »

ORIGINAL: Mobius

ORIGINAL: wodin

Think I read it has a 2% lethality rate. Storm in a tea cup.
That is more or less an overall average. It is very low for the young but grows for older people. Seems to be about 10% for the elderly and medically frail.
The lethality rate is only useful alongside how contagious it is. The key problem is that it is (a) very contagious, (b) most people have mild enough symptoms that they don't stay home and thus infect lots of others.

2% becomes much more significant a public health issue if 50% of the world's population ends up becoming infected.

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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RangerJoe »

I hate to sound crass, but you have to die from something unless you are immortal. That said, it might just aggravate existing conditions such as asthma, heart problems, and other issues. Live your life but take sensible precautions. Actually, the proper mask can help the non-infected stay that way by not breathing in the pathogens but you can still get sick from catching the various illness causing pathogens some other way.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by Lobster »

You really don't understand. It seems you would rather just ignore it until it's like Wuhan where the healthcare system folds under the masses of people. That's what the rest of the world is trying to prevent. It can't be business as usual. This stuff is much more contagious than the flu. Everything is fine and then it's like a bomb going off because it's contagious very early on yet symptoms don't appear for a week or more. Suddenly people are dying and hospitals become swamped because it goes undetected for so long. Yeah, that's scary to me because I'm not stupid. I've survived a lot of shit storms because I never take anything for granted.

I have an idea, you and your business buddies offer free meals a few times a week and tout how no one will get sick. If you're right then you'll get lots of customers and people will become less afraid. If you're wrong you'll probably end up in court. Roll the dice. [;)]
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RFalvo69
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RFalvo69 »

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I have an idea, you and your business buddies offer free meals a few times a week and tout how no one will get sick. If you're right then you'll get lots of customers and people will become less afraid. If you're wrong you'll probably end up in court. Roll the dice. [;)]

That wouldn't work: free meals do not automatically lead to increased customers' numbers. And scared customers will ignore the free meal anyway. [:)]

Regarding the court thinghie, there would be no law against free meals and no disposition against them in the official precautions taken to fight the bug.

Anyway... Well, right on cue we were notified of 7 suspected cases in Sicily and one in Calabria - all already quarantined, however.

I ranted against the politicians (in a general sense in the Western World); but I must admit that, at least here in Italy, the scientific community does seem to be tackling the problem head-on. Now we have the institution of:

- Red Zones (hot zones from where the virus originated - usually not bigger that a town and the outskirts, like Codogno)
- Yellow Zones (areas containing one or more hot zones, like Lombardy)
- and Green Zones (areas where the know cases are all quarantined and there is no scientific reason to think that the situation will change, like Sicily and Calabria).

This is helping a lot to clarify the situation. I hope that it will help to avoid fear due to confusion amid the populace.

Better yet, the authorities do seem to listen. The government is imposing to all the country the blanket adoption of those measures that do seem to work, overruling the actions taken by the single regions (which were amid the sources of bickering, since every region is governed by a different party [8|]). We will see.

Of course the media "due to the duty to inform" underline how "these are unproven, precautional measures" (wow, you do apply measures against a new form of menace and those measures are "unproven"? who would have thought that) - with follow ups where the widow of a recently deceased man is interviewed.

Edit: That's all for today. If anything, every night I go to bed with a sense of curiosity about what tomorrow will bring.
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"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by springel »

Today I heard the medical defence planning in the Netherlands is for now trying to contain the infection with quarantines, but be ready to fall back when the virus escapes containment and keeps spreading.

In that case the defence will be built around the vulnerable, i.e. they stay in protected institutions, while the large more resistant part of the population just absorbs this infection. Then a vaccine must free the 'protected' later.

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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RangerJoe »

Ah yes, lock the vulnerable people up. The problem is, unless there is no contact with the outside, how will you keep any contagion out . . .
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: Lobster

You really don't understand. It seems you would rather just ignore it until it's like Wuhan where the healthcare system folds under the masses of people. That's what the rest of the world is trying to prevent. It can't be business as usual. This stuff is much more contagious than the flu. Everything is fine and then it's like a bomb going off because it's contagious very early on yet symptoms don't appear for a week or more. Suddenly people are dying and hospitals become swamped because it goes undetected for so long. Yeah, that's scary to me because I'm not stupid. I've survived a lot of shit storms because I never take anything for granted.

I have an idea, you and your business buddies offer free meals a few times a week and tout how no one will get sick. If you're right then you'll get lots of customers and people will become less afraid. If you're wrong you'll probably end up in court. Roll the dice. [;)]

I don't think that people are ignoring it. But people don't want to stick their heads in the sand either nor resort to needless panic.

Just because something may be more contagious than influenza does not mean that we have to panic and shut down the entire world. It means to take reasonable care not to increase you risk while still getting on with your life. You have to do what you have to do. If you want to hide in a basement, go right ahead but be aware that not everybody feels that they have to.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by Mobius »

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
But people don't want to stick their heads in the sand either nor resort to needless panic.
I'll put that on the wall of my bunker.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: Mobius
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
But people don't want to stick their heads in the sand either nor resort to needless panic.
I'll put that on the wall of my bunker.

I recall a cartoon about the Y2K bug. A couple were in their bunker with a lot of canned goods, with a lantern, and an electric can opener . . . [X(]
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by Erik Rutins »

Thanks z1812 - I agree history has to be our guide here.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RangerJoe »


A nice article, thank you.
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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by Lobster »

I really don't expect anyone to have the political balls to do what needs to be done. It is an election year here. So things will get much worse re a virus. The present administration is damned if they do and damned if they don't. [8|]
ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)

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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

Post by RangerJoe »

Let us NOT discuss that topic here.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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