OT: Corona virus

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Come on, John. I was referring to government handling of health care being cumbersome and inefficient. I didn't mean emergency services or the military or other things that the government can do and must do.

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

The government is inefficient and cumbersome

Perhaps, but I don't see anybody else stepping up today. Folks seem pretty happy that me and my daughter (Veterans Administration)are putting on our PPE and putting ourselves in high risk areas to keep the world running. Not to mention my other daughter (pharmacy tech in a town with 800 cases). I personally played a major role in the construction in the largest 911 call taking and dispatch center in the world. And it is preforming magnificently although we are starting to run out of healthy folks to man it. Yes, I'm inefficient and cumbersome but if me and my coworkerks don't show up in NYC and other places this morning what do we have? I'm from the government. I'm here to help. There will be tens of thousands of 911 calls today and many of those calls are from people having the worst, and perhaps last, days of their lives. And someone, from the government, will show up to help. Not a lot of those folks are looking to shrink government to a size you could drown in a bathtub. I don’t see anyone from private industry showing up to take my place on the line today.

"Government is inefficient and cumbersome, except when it's not"

[8|]

[RangerJoe]

mind_messing

Anecdote, the strongest of evidence.
.
.
.
Looks nasty.

Still anecdotal.

All the savvy statistics swots should know: One example is bad statistics...

I am going to block you since you are an a$$ on just about every thing that you have posted here.

I think that I will start a Scotch joke thread. Maybe one about men who wear skirts . . .

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

mind_messing

Anecdote, the strongest of evidence.
.
.
.
Looks nasty.

Still anecdotal.

All the savvy statistics swots should know: One example is bad statistics...

I am going to block you since you are an a$$ on just about every thing that you have posted here.

I think that I will start a Scotch joke thread. Maybe one about men who wear skirts . . .

Please, feel free on both accounts. I've a great sense of humour [:)]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

mind_messing

Anecdote, the strongest of evidence.
.
.
.
Looks nasty.

Still anecdotal.

All the savvy statistics swots should know: One example is bad statistics...

I am going to block you since you are an a$$ on just about every thing that you have posted here.

I think that I will start a Scotch joke thread. Maybe one about men who wear skirts . . .

Please, feel free on both accounts. I've a great sense of humour [:)]

And none of propriety.

Done with your flippant offensiveness.

Green button.

[Kursk1943]

...and I thought the previous 96 pages couldn't be topped! [X(][8|]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Come on, John. I was referring to government handling of health care being cumbersome and inefficient. I didn't mean emergency services or the military or other things that the government can do and must do.

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

The government is inefficient and cumbersome

Perhaps, but I don't see anybody else stepping up today. Folks seem pretty happy that me and my daughter (Veterans Administration)are putting on our PPE and putting ourselves in high risk areas to keep the world running. Not to mention my other daughter (pharmacy tech in a town with 800 cases). I personally played a major role in the construction in the largest 911 call taking and dispatch center in the world. And it is preforming magnificently although we are starting to run out of healthy folks to man it. Yes, I'm inefficient and cumbersome but if me and my coworkerks don't show up in NYC and other places this morning what do we have? I'm from the government. I'm here to help. There will be tens of thousands of 911 calls today and many of those calls are from people having the worst, and perhaps last, days of their lives. And someone, from the government, will show up to help. Not a lot of those folks are looking to shrink government to a size you could drown in a bathtub. I don’t see anyone from private industry showing up to take my place on the line today.

The problem is not so much with people like John or his daughter, they are on the front lines. The problem, at least to me, is the people in the beauacracy or the people in the administration who like to show their power by blocking things. They do not seem to understand the "mission first, all other things second" philosophy. They try to protect their turf, so to speak. Someone of them will manipulate the system for their own personal gain.

This CoViD-19 situation is more important than the just what the death rate shows. The average person needs to know quality information to protect themselves and their families. I almost put loved ones but that may not necessarily include their families. [;)] When people like John and his daughter, Cap Mandrake are working they see the trees and not the forest. They need to concentrate on the trees, I would like to know more about the forest. This way I do the most to protect myself and in my new living environment, inform others who may not be online or are otherwise too busy to get the information.

[Canoerebel]

In reply to Kursk: Yeah, remember those claims yesterday that politics was fine for discussion in here? [:-]

[Canoerebel]

In reply to Ranger: Funny, your post was made while I was typing a PM to JohnD along the same lines. The heart of that message (leaving out my personal well wishes to him):

Given the long national discussion over health care and the role of government therein, I think you know that my comment was specifically in reference to that. While about half of Americans feel the way I do, the other half don't. But we know how the other side feels, so that we can discuss it in places like this without making a lot of qualifying statements. I didn't think it was necessary to qualify my statement but in hindsight I should have.

I think you know that I wasn't referring to emergency services, the military, and many other things the government can and must do and can only do. And I hope you know that all Americans support the national, state and emergency services of every kind. We're in this together and for now the debate isn't even over the role of government in health care. Until the virus is beat, we're all pulling for the folks fighting it.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Come on, John. I was referring to government handling of health care being cumbersome and inefficient. I didn't mean emergency services or the military or other things that the government can do and must do.

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


Perhaps, but I don't see anybody else stepping up today. Folks seem pretty happy that me and my daughter (Veterans Administration)are putting on our PPE and putting ourselves in high risk areas to keep the world running. Not to mention my other daughter (pharmacy tech in a town with 800 cases). I personally played a major role in the construction in the largest 911 call taking and dispatch center in the world. And it is preforming magnificently although we are starting to run out of healthy folks to man it. Yes, I'm inefficient and cumbersome but if me and my coworkerks don't show up in NYC and other places this morning what do we have? I'm from the government. I'm here to help. There will be tens of thousands of 911 calls today and many of those calls are from people having the worst, and perhaps last, days of their lives. And someone, from the government, will show up to help. Not a lot of those folks are looking to shrink government to a size you could drown in a bathtub. I don’t see anyone from private industry showing up to take my place on the line today.

The problem is not so much with people like John or his daughter, they are on the front lines. The problem, at least to me, is the people in the beauacracy or the people in the administration who like to show their power by blocking things. They do not seem to understand the "mission first, all other things second" philosophy. They try to protect their turf, so to speak. Someone of them will manipulate the system for their own personal gain.

This CoViD-19 situation is more important than the just what the death rate shows. The average person needs to know quality information to protect themselves and their families. I almost put loved ones but that may not necessarily include their families. [;)] When people like John and his daughter, Cap Mandrake are working they see the trees and not the forest. They need to concentrate on the trees, I would like to know more about the forest. This way I do the most to protect myself and in my new living environment, inform others who may not be online or are otherwise too busy to get the information.

[obvert]

I'll just repost things that slip due to disagreements.

This graph has changed today. I think a few mentioned the logarithmic y axis was confusing, and it's been changed to deaths per day rather than per week. A similar curve comparison overall it seems.

One interesting part of the Chinese numbers, even though we know they're not correct, is the length of the descending curve for deaths. From the high point at ~150/day the downward slope still has take about 12-14 days to get to 50/day, and around 22 days to get to 25/day.

Outside NY all US states other than WA (of those shown) trending along the lines of Lombardia and Madrid.

[MakeeLearn]

My DEATH CHART was posted for discussion of comparison. It's NOT my creation nor my beliefs.

Modern politics is for CHILDREN. I've got news for both sides - "America is over" been heading that way for awhile.



"In 2019, around 42.4 million pregnancies ended in abortion worldwide.

According to Worldometers, which tabulates global statistics on abortion procedures based on the most current available figures from the World Health Organization, 40 to 50 million abortions are performed annually worldwide."

45 million /3


The main point of posting that chart: YOU GONNA DIE



The behavior Ive seen in public from people is DISGUSTING. And what we are allowing fear to do.....

What's going gonna happen when CV19 sends us Turn2 in the fall.

[Yaab]

(QUARANTINED)[:D]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

mind_messing

Anecdote, the strongest of evidence.
.
.
.
Looks nasty.

Still anecdotal.

All the savvy statistics swots should know: One example is bad statistics...

I am going to block you since you are an a$$ on just about every thing that you have posted here.

I think that I will start a Scotch joke thread. Maybe one about men who wear skirts . . .

I love scotch! Oh, wait, you're talking about people from the country of Scotland within the UK.

I think you mean Scottish.[;)]

[obvert]

Another repost.

A new graphic. This does show the very slight indication of cases beginning in a number of locations early, in mid-January, before testing ramped up. With all that we know now about mild and asymptomatic cases these indications of the presence of the disease point to much more extensive transmission early.

I don't like this representation much though, as it only focuses on new cases by chunks, not absolute numbers, and doesn't indicate totals. Looks pretty, doesn't hold up to grognard standards of granularity.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In reply to Ranger: Funny, your post was made while I was typing a PM to JohnD along the same lines. The heart of that message (leaving out my personal well wishes to him):

Given the long national discussion over health care and the role of government therein, I think you know that my comment was specifically in reference to that. While about half of Americans feel the way I do, the other half don't. But we know how the other side feels, so that we can discuss it in places like this without making a lot of qualifying statements. I didn't think it was necessary to qualify my statement but in hindsight I should have.

I think you know that I wasn't referring to emergency services, the military, and many other things the government can and must do and can only do. And I hope you know that all Americans support the national, state and emergency services of every kind. We're in this together and for now the debate isn't even over the role of government in health care. Until the virus is beat, we're all pulling for the folks fighting it.

+1

They are the front lines, we are the support people. If people would follow the suggestions made to slow this down, things will be much better. I am in the process of moving but without a vehicle it is tough so I have to go out. Paying rent for two apartments does not do my finances any good.

I saw a sign near a set of law enforcement classrooms at a local college "If you don't like the police, the next time you need help call a hippy." Or something to that effect. [:D]

Getting back to the corona virus thing, eat sensibly and use proper sanitary precautions. If you get sick, be selfish and do not share. Unlike a NY lawyer* that I read about who was sick and went to a party and gave at least 50 people this corona virus. In CT, a bunch of people attended a birthday party and 50 people or so got the corona virus. Locally, I know one person who has it who went out of state for something and came back with it. I think that it was a wedding. She is ill, her daughter and grand daughter are now quarantined.

*Nothing personal about lawyers. They should be intelligent but that does not mean that they can't do stupid things just like anybody else.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

My DEATH CHART was posted for discussion of comparison. It's NOT my creation nor my beliefs.

Modern politics is for CHILDREN. I've got news for both sides - "America is over" been heading that way for awhile.



"In 2019, around 42.4 million pregnancies ended in abortion worldwide.

According to Worldometers, which tabulates global statistics on abortion procedures based on the most current available figures from the World Health Organization, 40 to 50 million abortions are performed annually worldwide."

42.4 million /3


The main point of posting that chart: YOU GONNA DIE



The behavior Ive seen in public from people is DISGUSTING. And what we are allowing fear to do.....

What's going gonna happen when CV19 sends us Turn2 in the fall.

I completely get what you're trying to do, and I support that. I think adding abortion in just skews the dialogue away from what you're trying to do, which is talk about mortality rates for various other endpoints of life.

Here are some other examples:

[MakeeLearn]

obvert thanks, I was looking for more comprehensive charts. The one I used yesterday was because of time limits. I had a chainsaw to fix.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive
Hope all is still well with you and yours RFalvo. I hope the last couple of pages of arguments are not too frustrating to you still living in the epicenter of this. I'm as guilty as anyone in terms of derailing this thread off of it's correct purpose.

We are fine, thanks. What scares me, however, is the number of high-profile people who got the virus (Albert of Monaco, Boris Johnson, Prince Charles of England...) One would assume that these people (exp. a PM) would enjoy an extra-layer of protection, with all the conceivable measures put in place to avoid a possible contagion (a sort of "Antiviral Secret Service") - and still they got it. What does this tell to us peons who have to provide for ourselves?

Do you think the recent Italian numbers are as encouraging as they look from an outsider's perspective? In particular that so far there hasn't been the mushrooming of cases and deaths that we might have feared as the virus reached southern Italy?

This question actually points to a problem I'm seeing in this thread: the attempt to reduce this colossal emergency to "numbers", with no regard for the social and psychological impact in the various countries.

Yes, latest news are encouraging - if you only watch the statistics (*). But what about social disruption? Possible food shortages? "Stress tiredness" that leads to mistakes in the mandatory emergency routines? Will we be able to sustain the population and avoid a revolt during the time necessary for this emergency to pass? Because "flattening the curve" in meaningless if your population is assaulting supermarkets, trucks that carry food and other goods, and closed shops.

All these problems are compounded by the stressful situation we are in 24/7, a kind of unavoidable anxiety which is already leading to an increase of alcohol and drugs abuse, depression, bulimia, lack of physical exercise and cabin fever. Then the usual Spring allergies will arrive, with you sneezing and coughing due to pollen or hay fever - but also with the people around you treating you as a human bio-bomb.

All of the above with no real end in sight.

Even happier news are the PTSD that will hit the whole World when all of this will be over. Don't fool yourself in thinking otherwise: we will be all suffering from PTSD (**). Doctors and nurses will be the hardest hit, then the Police/Army, politicians (no matter what your opinion is about them and what they are doing, a large number is sleeping for three hours/day while taking decisions that will affect tens of millions of people), and then us.

And of this will happen while we all are facing the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression.

I don't want to sound like a Doom Prophet. I can only point how debates about these very real problems are close to zero - if compared with the number of charts we are seeing in the Coronavirus debate.

So, yes, the numbers are encouraging. All the rest isn't.

Sadly in London it looks like we are going to go through something similar to what you have been experiencing - I am hopeful that with a couple more weeks of notice we might have been able to take a few more steps towards providing more 'ad hoc' critical care beds but I think that that advantage will be counterbalanced by the 'running on fumes' state the NHS has been in coming into this situation.

My younger daughter lives in London sharing a flat with a friend, and she lost her job. I sent her money, but she says that she would be happier just to be here in Lombardy. I understand your concerns.

All the best to you and your family [:)]

Thanks! To yours too [:)]

(*) Analysing how things are going is useful and informative. But sometimes I wonder if all of this obsession about data statistics is a way to psychologically distance yourself from the virus, its implications and the possibility to be infected - by reducing it to numbers. An illusion of control.

(**) As it is already happening in China.

[MakeeLearn]

A REPOST of mine

On American healthcare: the fact that we will have more deaths from CV!9 because our "higher standard" of living has allowed unhealthy people to..... mmmmm... thrive. ????

[DD696]

I will say this started out as very informative.

I will say that there is still informative material being presented.

I will also say that the bull manure now greatly outweighs the informative material.

Durned Wolf: I apologize for seeming to imply that California is not the most perfect and well run state in the Union. Having lived there for several years in the scenic and lush town of Trona certainly gives me no right to say anything about California.

Mind Messing - green buttoned. I have never done that to anyone but you are simply an ass. It is a shame that your comments will be quoted by some and therefore still visible.

Yes, I never post much. It has never really been worth the effort.

CanoeRebel - sorry your effort to have a sane place to post about this crisis has now become a crisis in itself. Such is the nature of state of the rabble of humanity.