OT: Corona virus

[MakeeLearn]

Is there something out there that is going to attack crops? Hmmmmmm.

[Olorin]

Loss of land workers. I have a vineyard and it's going to be tough to maintain it until harvest (August) without workers.

Also, liquidity to buy fertilizers and pesticides is a major problem for many in my country.

Spanish and Italian harvests will be severely diminished, putting many farmers out of business.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: Olorin

OK, I'll try to get back on topic by asking RFalvo69 (who appears to be online) for his prediction about the possibility of Italians demanding that Italy leaves the EU and how soon he sees it happening.

Well, I actually went to sleep with my computer on [:)]

I don't see Italy leaving the EU. Even returning to our old money, the Lira, would simply cause a Weimar Republic-level inflation.

What about aid?

Yes, the BCE bought tons of Government Bonds from the hardest hit counties during the Coronavirus crisis. This move enjoyed universal acclaim: the interests on borrowed money were strongly reduced, thus allowing these countries to spend more in the fight against the virus.

But there is an elephant in the room. There is a strong resistance by the "rich" countries (Germany, France, Austria, the Scandinavia’s countries etc) to issue Eurobonds. The fear is that the "Second Division" members of the EU (Italy, Spain, Greece...) will not be able to repay the investment. This would force these countries to cover the deficit by taxing their population, and no politician will ever want that. No German citizen will ever pay taxes to cover, let's say, Italy's inability to fight our gigantor level of tax evasion.

Truth is: Italy has lost her credibility. The EU is factually demonstrating how some key members have no more faith in us.

So, right now the EU is weakening Italy's social tissue and increasing internal political polarization.

Even worse, this emergency brought to light another inconvenient truth: there is no EU. What we call European Union only the sum of the internal interests of a group of very different countries - whose politicians care about the wellbeing of their own country, not of the whole Union.

Thus the EU is doing its best to show the endemic problems in the Eurozone, and, by doing so, they are actually promoting the nationalist/populist sentiments ("Make Italy Great Again!", "Let's Take Back Our Country!"... You know the gist). Any nationalist, right now, can appear on TV and say "See? The EU is not the source of help that they promised, for these reasons". And he would be right. It is not even a political view: it is a fact.

However, fun fact: Italy is too big to fail. If Italy fails the Eurozone will crumble. So, is the EU stupid? No, this fact is well known. But this is where the ugly head of modern politics appears: the inability to plan, to prepare for the far future. A saying says "A good politician is a man who plants a tree knowing that he will never enjoy its shadow". Today's politicians show you the missing tree and blame (feel free to choose: the EU, the immigrants, those who don't pay their taxes, the opposition, various but not you of course).

This pandemic was totally predicted. In 2015 it was a disaster bound to happen in a span of two decades. Did someone do something to prepare for it? No. No one in the World. "Who cares about what could happen in two decades? We could be already dead anyway! Right now we must find a solution to give brioches to our population".

Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

Will we learn the importance of long plans from COVID-19? What about the EU "experiment"? And the Italian debt?

I truly don't know. But I do know one thing: we are not planning for our sons and daughters' future. What this makes of us?

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

And of course we are expected to react to any and every claim that the sky is falling by immediately putting all of our resources into restructuring the universe to accommodate the claim?

I take exception with your gentrified portrayal of a young fascist shouting at politicians to put their backs against a wall as a mere kid who is a bit worried.

The self same planetary doomsayers have been crying wolf since the 1970s and not a single dire prediction has come to pass.

The worlds coastlines predicted to be under water by now are not. The oil predicted to dry up hasn't (try reading The Deep Hot Biosphere for a different viewpoint). Yaddda, yadda , yadda and so on.........

This is the very politics that poison the thread. Why throw in such a hand grenade?

[Cap Mandrake]

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. [:)] (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: DD696

I will say this started out as very informative.

I will say that there is still informative material being presented.

I will also say that the bull manure now greatly outweighs the informative material.

Durned Wolf: I apologize for seeming to imply that California is not the most perfect and well run state in the Union. Having lived there for several years in the scenic and lush town of Trona certainly gives me no right to say anything about California.

Mind Messing - green buttoned. I have never done that to anyone but you are simply an ass. It is a shame that your comments will be quoted by some and therefore still visible.

Yes, I never post much. It has never really been worth the effort.

CanoeRebel - sorry your effort to have a sane place to post about this crisis has now become a crisis in itself. Such is the nature of state of the rabble of humanity.

DD696 - thanks - I accept your apology. The greatest olive branch is a simple apology - thank you.

I've been to Trona, where the high school football field is green-painted sand and the nostalgic smell of over-ripe eggs tends to follow the breeze. I spent 13 years in Ridgecrest b4 moving up to Bishop, California, which is truly a lush and scenic town. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that California is A-#-1. But it's one of 50 great states in a great country I call home. There's s'posed to be a reason why we call us the United States of America... [;)]

[Cap Mandrake]

Former Chicom booster sours on the CCP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU

[MakeeLearn]

"Inovio's platform is achieving what no other approach has before: utilizing DNA and next-generation antigen sequencing and delivery to activate the immune system. Inovio's immunotherapies function exclusively in vivo, generating an antigen-specific immune response against targeted diseases in clinical trials to date. The science is at once, unprecedented and practical. It is the realization of the power of immunotherapy, exclusively in the hands of the physician and through the patient's own immune system."


https://www.inovio.com/about#our-story

[Canoerebel]

This is the second reference to Climate Change in which the poster (in both cases, highly-regarded forumites) referred to it factually, assuming that everybody agrees. While it is the predominant theory, there are still many, including some with credentials, that dispute it to varying degrees. This thread certainly isn't the place to engage in that debate. It's been tried before without success in other threads. We do well to remember that our takes on disputed matters are disputed.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. [:)] (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

Hey Cap - I gotta mask question. Should we all be wearing them? Earlier in the COVID response, word from up high seemed to be not unless you were sick. Now it seems to be a mish-mash of yes-or-no if you are leaving the house. What-cha think?

[RFalvo69]

Wrong post, sorry.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

And of course we are expected to react to any and every claim that the sky is falling by immediately putting all of our resources into restructuring the universe to accommodate the claim?

No. Only those supported by hard scientific facts.

The worlds coastlines predicted to be under water by now are not. The oil predicted to dry up hasn't (try reading The Deep Hot Biosphere for a different viewpoint). Yaddda, yadda , yadda and so on.........

I gather that one of these emergencies was "There will be a pandemic".

In 2003 the SARS scare was derided. "The doomsayers expected a pandemy. We are still all here, LOL!" It turned out that it was a shot across the bow.

This is the very politics that poison the thread. Why throw in such a hand grenade?

Politics? While this emergency has been politicised (which is a totally different thing), check what the USA and Russia are factually doing in the Artic, and then guess what made this possible. Pro tip: not politics.

If you want other sources I can provide them.

Edit: Anyway, I agree with Canoerebel. It is sensitive. Let's not wake this dog here.

[DD696]

Yes, please, let's now get into the climate change wars. Hey, Al, where the hell are you?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

And of course we are expected to react to any and every claim that the sky is falling by immediately putting all of our resources into restructuring the universe to accommodate the claim?

No. Only those supported by hard scientific facts.

The worlds coastlines predicted to be under water by now are not. The oil predicted to dry up hasn't (try reading The Deep Hot Biosphere for a different viewpoint). Yaddda, yadda , yadda and so on.........

I gather that one of these emergencies was "There will be a pandemic".

In 2003 the SARS scare was derided. "The doomsayers expected a pandemy. We are still all here, LOL!" It turned out that it was a shot across the bow.

This is the very politics that poison the thread. Why throw in such a hand grenade?

Politics? While this emergency has been politicised (which is a totally different thing), check what the USA and Russia are factually doing in the Artic, and then guess what made this possible. Pro tip: not politics.

If you want other sources I can provide them.

Don't expect much engagement with actual evidence here. You'll get a lot of rhetoric and handwaving about "different viewpoints" and "lack of consensus" and absolutely nothing in response to the actual evidence.

Don't let that stop you.

Post #2949 is about as advanced as the discussion will get, as if it develops any further then there's the obvious deficit on evidence on one side of the argument (no points for guessing which side it's on!).

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

And of course we are expected to react to any and every claim that the sky is falling by immediately putting all of our resources into restructuring the universe to accommodate the claim?

I take exception with your gentrified portrayal of a young fascist shouting at politicians to put their backs against a wall as a mere kid who is a bit worried.

The self same planetary doomsayers have been crying wolf since the 1970s and not a single dire prediction has come to pass.

The worlds coastlines predicted to be under water by now are not. The oil predicted to dry up hasn't (try reading The Deep Hot Biosphere for a different viewpoint). Yaddda, yadda , yadda and so on.........

This is the very politics that poison the thread. Why throw in such a hand grenade?

Any odds for Canoerebel to call out this post for being very much against the spirit of "his" thread? [8|]

[MakeeLearn]

What dumb ass is in charge. Unless it's mis-info on purpose.


"Onshore quarantine of U.S. aircraft carrier sailors begins on Guam "
5 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/onsho ... li=BBnbcA1


"About 1,000 sailors from the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt - roughly a fifth of its crew - were under quarantine at a U.S. naval base on Guam on Thursday as the Navy sought to control a coronavirus outbreak aboard the warship."

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: Olorin

OK, I'll try to get back on topic by asking RFalvo69 (who appears to be online) for his prediction about the possibility of Italians demanding that Italy leaves the EU and how soon he sees it happening.

Well, I actually went to sleep with my computer on [:)]

I don't see Italy leaving the EU. Even returning to our old money, the Lira, would simply cause a Weimar Republic-level inflation.

What about aid?

Yes, the BCE bought tons of Government Bonds from the hardest hit counties during the Coronavirus crisis. This move enjoyed universal acclaim: the interests on borrowed money were strongly reduced, thus allowing these countries to spend more in the fight against the virus.

But there is an elephant in the room. There is a strong resistance by the "rich" countries (Germany, France, Austria, the Scandinavia’s countries etc) to issue Eurobonds. The fear is that the "Second Division" members of the EU (Italy, Spain, Greece...) will not be able to repay the investment. This would force these countries to cover the deficit by taxing their population, and no politician will ever want that. No German citizen will ever pay taxes to cover, let's say, Italy's inability to fight our gigantor level of tax evasion.

Truth is: Italy has lost her credibility. The EU is factually demonstrating how some key members have no more faith in us.

So, right now the EU is weakening Italy's social tissue and increasing internal political polarization.

Even worse, this emergency brought to light another inconvenient truth: there is no EU. What we call European Union only the sum of the internal interests of a group of very different countries - whose politicians care about the wellbeing of their own country, not of the whole Union.

Thus the EU is doing its best to show the endemic problems in the Eurozone, and, by doing so, they are actually promoting the nationalist/populist sentiments ("Make Italy Great Again!", "Let's Take Back Our Country!"... You know the gist). Any nationalist, right now, can appear on TV and say "See? The EU is not the source of help that they promised, for these reasons". And he would be right. It is not even a political view: it is a fact.

However, fun fact: Italy is too big to fail. If Italy fails the Eurozone will crumble. So, is the EU stupid? No, this fact is well known. But this is where the ugly head of modern politics appears: the inability to plan, to prepare for the far future. A saying says "A good politician is a man who plants a tree knowing that he will never enjoy its shadow". Today's politicians show you the missing tree and blame (feel free to choose: the EU, the immigrants, those who don't pay their taxes, the opposition, various but not you of course).

This pandemic was totally predicted. In 2015 it was a disaster bound to happen in a span of two decades. Did someone do something to prepare for it? No. No one in the World. "Who cares about what could happen in two decades? We could be already dead anyway! Right now we must find a solution to give brioches to our population".

Ah well, in two decades we could really be in even worse dire straits: after all, we are deriding a kid who is saying: "Here... Listen... The Planet is becoming a teeny bit warmer... And... I'm a bit worried".

Will we learn the importance of long plans from COVID-19? What about the EU "experiment"? And the Italian debt?

I truly don't know. But I do know one thing: we are not planning for our sons and daughters' future. What this makes of us?

Thanks for sharing, RFalvo69. I really enjoy reading your posts and thoughts. We don't all have to agree with every sentence you write. If I don't agree with your view on a specific topic I can politely move on. Many people have differing views on a variety of subjects. I'd rather look at the areas we have in common, take the opportunity to self-question different opinions than mine, and attempt to grow as a person rather than try to shout you down or attempt to force you to self-edit yourself.

My 2-cents is to keep posting your thoughts and views. [:)]

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. [:)] (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

Hey Cap - I gotta mask question. Should we all be wearing them? Earlier in the COVID response word from up high seemed to be not unless you were sick. Now it seems to be a mish-mash of yes-or-no if you are leaving the house. What-cha think?

I don't wear a mask at home or out in the garden but at work, absolutely and if I have to go to the grocery store...I make the Dominican baseball player good luck sign and wear a mask and gloves then I carefully take off the gloves hooking my little gloved finger under the exterior heel of the other glove, inverting it, then using the inverted glove as protection, repeat the process on the other glove and drop both gloves in the open bag which i have purposely left open on the rear hatch of the snazzy 380 hp Stinger II BEFORE I went in the store. I close the pre-taped disposable bag with the contaminated gloves and put in the trash (or if not available it goes into the hatchback for dispoasal at home.) The mask goes into an unsealed paper bag to lay fallow for 3 days and be reused. I open the front door and back hatch with my "clean" hands and put the alcohol gel on the roof...then lift the grocery bags into the hatchback with one or two fingers in the handle. Then apply the gel all the way to the elbows and let dry. Then you get in the car and drive home leaving the reading glasses on till you get home and can wash your glasses and hands again with soap and water.

Completely neurotic sounding but it is the kind of thing if you gloves are covered in blood or amniotic fluid or pus.[:)]

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Everyone,

I haven't had time to read through every page, but I'm just going to reiterate that this should not be a political thread. Discussions regarding politics should be taken elsewhere (i.e. not our forum). Stick to news and personal experiences regarding the Coronavirus in this thread. In general, we do not allow personal attacks or controversial discussions on politics or religion specifically because we want these forums to help unite wargamers rather than adding to the division already present in the real world, plus there are many other avenues available for those discussion for those who have to have them.

Regards,

- Erik

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good overview of vaccine development concerns

Frankly the idea of a vaccine containing DNA to cause the recipient to make Coronavirus spike protein in the absence of the whole virion makes me a bit nervous as well. Essentially, that is making the human race a GMO. [:)] (not really as long as the foreign DNA does not become permanently incorporated into the human genome.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00798-8

Hey Cap - I gotta mask question. Should we all be wearing them? Earlier in the COVID response word from up high seemed to be not unless you were sick. Now it seems to be a mish-mash of yes-or-no if you are leaving the house. What-cha think?

I don't wear a mask at home or out in the garden but at work, absolutely and if I have to go to the grocery store...I make the Dominican baseball player good luck sign and wear a mask and gloves then I carefully take off the gloves hooking my little gloved finger under the exterior heel of the other glove, inverting it, then using the inverted glove as protection, repeat the process on the other glove and drop both gloves in the open bag which i have purposely left open on the rear hatch of the snazzy 380 hp Stinger II BEFORE I went in the store. I close the pre-taped disposable bag with the contaminated gloves and put in the trash (or if not available it goes into the hatchback for dispoasal at home.) The mask goes into an unsealed paper bag to lay fallow for 3 days and be reused. I open the front door and back hatch with my "clean" hands and put the alcohol gel on the roof...then lift the grocery bags into the hatchback with one or two fingers in the handle. Then apply the gel all the way to the elbows and let dry. Then you get in the car and drive home leaving the reading glasses on till you get home and can wash your glasses and hands again with soap and water.

Completely neurotic sounding but it is the kind of thing if you gloves are covered in blood or amniotic fluid or pus.[:)]

MMMM, that's SO sexy!