OT - The New Coronavirus

[GaryChildress]

My parents went to their primary physician yesterday. They wore some homemade face masks I made. When they got there no one in the office was wearing a face mask and they told my parents they could take them off. Apparently, their Doctor believes this is all being blown out of proportion. Still, My parents are in their 80s and I don't see what's wrong with taking extra precautions. I don't know about that doctor. I've heard enough of the horror stories that it seems like better safe than sorry.

[Red2112]

I find it strange that countries, while knowing the problem, even before hand (Event 201), are all (80%) following practicaly the same strategy! Like if they were following some mayor rules, ruled out by who really governs the world.

One would think that a country with it´s own identity would come up with it´s own solutions to some of the issues that all this is laying on the table, but no, they all keep making the same mistakes other countries have made, or even worst mistakes! It dosen´t make sense to me...

[rico21]

ORIGINAL: Red2112

I find it strange that countries, while knowing the problem, even before hand (Event 201), are all (80%) following practicaly the same strategy! Like if they were following some mayor rules, ruled out by who really governs the world.

One would think that a country with it´s own identity would come up with it´s own solutions to some of the issues that all this is laying on the table, but no, they all keep making the same mistakes other countries have made, or even worst mistakes! It dosen´t make sense to me...

All countries except perhaps South Korea were not ready for the pandemic.
All of them lack the necessary equipment, that is to say masks and tests, so they only have repressive sanitary measures such as confinement.
They are all wasting time because initially they think they are doing the right thing, saving the economy by leaving the free movement of their citizens, then after they understand that people who are dead, sick or terrorized will no longer travel to work and that the economy will fall anyway. And then they also understand that once the pandemic is over, their decisions during the pandemic will be dissected by their people ...

[z1812]

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

My parents went to their primary physician yesterday. They wore some homemade face masks I made. When they got there no one in the office was wearing a face mask and they told my parents they could take them off. Apparently, their Doctor believes this is all being blown out of proportion. Still, My parents are in their 80s and I don't see what's wrong with taking extra precautions. I don't know about that doctor. I've heard enough of the horror stories that it seems like better safe than sorry.

https://nationalpost.com/news/despite-w ... oplay=true

[MrsWargamer]

Just pointing out a sad truth, indications are that this year's Atlantic hurricanes season will be aggressive.

Mother Nature isn't taking time off because of the virus.

And I doubt the west coast fire season will be any less active too.

[Red2112]

ORIGINAL: rico21

ORIGINAL: Red2112

I find it strange that countries, while knowing the problem, even before hand (Event 201), are all (80%) following practicaly the same strategy! Like if they were following some mayor rules, ruled out by who really governs the world.

One would think that a country with it´s own identity would come up with it´s own solutions to some of the issues that all this is laying on the table, but no, they all keep making the same mistakes other countries have made, or even worst mistakes! It dosen´t make sense to me...

All countries except perhaps South Korea were not ready for the pandemic.
All of them lack the necessary equipment, that is to say masks and tests, so they only have repressive sanitary measures such as confinement.
They are all wasting time because initially they think they are doing the right thing, saving the economy by leaving the free movement of their citizens, then after they understand that people who are dead, sick or terrorized will no longer travel to work and that the economy will fall anyway. And then they also understand that once the pandemic is over, their decisions during the pandemic will be dissected by their people ...

We had two weeks of time, some countries even more...

No excuse at all to that Rico.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: z1812

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

My parents went to their primary physician yesterday. They wore some homemade face masks I made. When they got there no one in the office was wearing a face mask and they told my parents they could take them off. Apparently, their Doctor believes this is all being blown out of proportion. Still, My parents are in their 80s and I don't see what's wrong with taking extra precautions. I don't know about that doctor. I've heard enough of the horror stories that it seems like better safe than sorry.

https://nationalpost.com/news/despite-w ... oplay=true

Thanks for the link, z1812. It sort of makes me wonder what other "necessary lies" we've been told. But whatever. It is what it is I guess.

[MrRoadrunner]

I made the horse laugh.
And, then I made the horse cry.

RR

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Red2112

I find it strange that countries, while knowing the problem, even before hand (Event 201), are all (80%) following practicaly the same strategy! Like if they were following some mayor rules, ruled out by who really governs the world.

One would think that a country with it´s own identity would come up with it´s own solutions to some of the issues that all this is laying on the table, but no, they all keep making the same mistakes other countries have made, or even worst mistakes! It dosen´t make sense to me...

warspite1

Well I'm no expert on this sort of situation, so these are just my own personal observations.

You say they all keep making the same mistakes but what are governments of democracies to do? Even now there are plenty of people not taking this seriously and flouting the instructions.

The UK initially sought a different approach - herd immunity - but quickly back-tracked - presumably when seeing what was happening in Italy.

So given the nature of the virus - and how infectious it appears to be - what, realistically is the alternative? And as for being unprepared despite warnings of a pandemic 'when' not 'if'. Well for that we can look at the way governments run. Why weren't the French and British ready for WWII? Why wasn't the US ready for Japan? Democracies spending finite resource - money - on a problem that they can hopefully kick down the road and never face is just not going to happen. No one is going to give brownie points to a government who are fully ready for a war or a pandemic that never arrives (but in so doing has meant that spending on healthcare and education etc is reduced).

And once this thing hit (seemingly not helped by China's lack of transparency initially) there wasn't that much time to mobilise with so much of the drugs and equipment required being produced overseas and all governments trying to source.

Have governments been guilty of various mistakes? Of course, no one is perfect and mistakes are and will continue to be made. But then this is a first - the last big one was during and just after WWI - the world is an infinitely different place from then.

Just my thoughts.

[GaryChildress]

It's sad but socialist countries seem to have one advantage over us and that is the ability to force people to do what is needed in times of emergency. Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2. It's like Sparta always seemed to get the better of Athens in war but their way of life wasn't anything most of us would be interested in. Maybe color me a pessimist but all good things seem to come at a cost. [:(]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

It's sad but socialist countries seem to have one advantage over us and that is the ability to force people to do what is needed in times of emergency. Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2. It's like Sparta always seemed to get the better of Athens in war but their way of life wasn't anything most of us would be interested in. Maybe color me a pessimist but all good things seem to come at a cost. [:(]

warspite1

I assume you mean Communist, not Socialist?

[Zovs]

There is absolutely nothing good or great about communism, pure and simple.

[Lobster]

For those who like to argue about what the covid-19 death rates are, this from BBC. Maybe it will help people understand. Or not:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2020 ... tes-differ

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

It's sad but socialist countries seem to have one advantage over us and that is the ability to force people to do what is needed in times of emergency. Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2. It's like Sparta always seemed to get the better of Athens in war but their way of life wasn't anything most of us would be interested in. Maybe color me a pessimist but all good things seem to come at a cost. [:(]

warspite1

I assume you mean Communist, not Socialist?

Sorry, yes.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.

Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.

Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.

No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...

[sPzAbt653]

I also thank z1812 for the link to the nice Canadian video concerning masks. I wanted to make sure that I understand the point - that we are told to not wear masks because we don't have enough, whereas Taiwan has enough so everybody wears them. Is that correct? Or did I miss the boat as I often do [:(]

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

Look at what Stalin was able to achieve leading up to and into WW2.

Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.

No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...

50 years of technological advancement in 8 years. Brought about by German, American, Swiss, French, Chzech and others expertise. Stalin and his communist cohorts were many things but stupid was not one of them.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

ORIGINAL: Lobster




Do you mean the mass starvation when farmers livestock was killed off to enforce collective farming? There was a reason for it but the economic and social price was far beyond what was expected.

On the flip side he did bring in American and German industrialists to drag the Soviet industry and rail transportation system into the 20th century.

No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...

50 years of technological advancement in 8 years. Brought about by German, American, Swiss, French, Chzech and others expertise. Stalin and his communist cohorts were many things but stupid was not one of them.

Interesting. I didn't realize western Industrialists were cooperating with the Soviets. I thought most of the industrialists were pretty much against communism at the time.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress



No, I'm obviously not referring to the starvation and the gulags, etc. I'm just saying that before Stalin, the Soviet Union was hardly the industrial giant it turned into during WW2. I agree that the human cost was horrendous and I am thankful we're not like them, but they also achieved a phenomenal turn around in a relatively short period of time to defeat Hitler. Just saying...

50 years of technological advancement in 8 years. Brought about by German, American, Swiss, French, Chzech and others expertise. Stalin and his communist cohorts were many things but stupid was not one of them.

Interesting. I didn't realize western Industrialists were cooperating with the Soviets. I thought most of the industrialists were pretty much against communism at the time.

True but money is money.