OT: Corona virus

[Canoerebel]

No, you said things about Georgia that were factually untrue. You were then given the correct info.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


This is a weird claim, Obvert. I live in Georgia and in the US but I'm not qualified to offer opinions about things here? I just spent an hour doing calculations and posting the results backing up the points I've been making. As expected, they bore out what I'd been saying (because I live here and know what's going on). When I corrected your mistaken assertions about Georgia yesterday, you just ignore it. A simple "oops" would've sufficed.

ORIGINAL: obvert




Exactly. And what he responded with is that again you gave no evidence for that claim. You just keep saying things like that makes them true.

You didn't correct any mistake. I simply pointed out that a lot of people were out doing business as usual. I'm seeing data, you're using opinions.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Has it occurred to anyone that someone's forum handle may be a sly reference to his style of "discussion"...and we are sending reinforcements into a minefield?[;)]

Are you trying to ostracise me, Good 'ol Capt?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

No, you said things about Georgia that were factually untrue. You were then given the correct info.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


This is a weird claim, Obvert. I live in Georgia and in the US but I'm not qualified to offer opinions about things here? I just spent an hour doing calculations and posting the results backing up the points I've been making. As expected, they bore out what I'd been saying (because I live here and know what's going on). When I corrected your mistaken assertions about Georgia yesterday, you just ignore it. A simple "oops" would've sufficed.

You didn't correct any mistake. I simply pointed out that a lot of people were out doing business as usual. I'm seeing data, you're using opinions.

I actually just showed the data, Dan. have a look again?

[Canoerebel]

Obvert quote about Georgia from yesterday: "Georgia happens to have some very dense concentrations of this virus around right now and it seems this statewide order is coming a bit late."

I knew Georgia's situation wasn't out of proportion and that the statewide order wasn't coming a bit late since local jurisdictions had managed well, so I provided this information (facts - not, as you claim, opinion):

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's some context.

Georgia is the 9th largest state in the USA. With respect to Covid-19, Georgia ranks 12th in cases and 9th in mortality.

That doesn't seem like it has been out of step. Since Georgia also has the largest airport in the world** it's somewhat surprising it's doing this well.

**Passenger traffic. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... er_traffic

Georgia happens to have some very dense concentrations of this virus around right now and it seems this statewide order is coming a bit late.

[Canoerebel]

He's referring to Mind_Messing, Erik.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Has it occurred to anyone that someone's forum handle may be a sly reference to his style of "discussion"...and we are sending reinforcements into a minefield?[;)]

Are you trying to ostracise me, Good 'ol Capt?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

You're simply wrong, Obvert. Stubbornly, persistently wrong.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The same can be said about some in here reporting about the Georgia governor. It's easy to fact check that too. Wait, it actually isn't. It takes a lot of time. That's why nobody else in here checked. Don't believe everything you hear on CNN, etc.

I actually read everything available and come up with nothing you claimed he said earlier. He simply didn't I don't watch or read CNN. But if it's CNN you have a beef with use a different source.

His exact words stated he only learned the day before closing down Georgia that asymptomatic pattens might pass the infection. it's in my post.

Show, don't tell.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Obvert quote about Georgia from yesterday: "Georgia happens to have some very dense concentrations of this virus around right now and it seems this statewide order is coming a bit late."

I knew Georgia's situation wasn't out of proportion and that the statewide order wasn't coming a bit late since local jurisdictions had managed well, so I provided this information (facts - not, as you claim, opinion):

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's some context.

Georgia is the 9th largest state in the USA. With respect to Covid-19, Georgia ranks 12th in cases and 9th in mortality.

That doesn't seem like it has been out of step. Since Georgia also has the largest airport in the world** it's somewhat surprising it's doing this well.

**Passenger traffic. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... er_traffic

Georgia happens to have some very dense concentrations of this virus around right now and it seems this statewide order is coming a bit late.

You forget that the second map I included showed the amount non-essential travel in Georgia from the previous week. Atlanta seems to be doing great. Other areas not so much.

I'm not trying to outsmart you, just using data to show that the US isn't all on the same page about this and it's going to cost lives. I wish it wasn't.

[Canoerebel]

I heard it with my own ears. Twice. That's sufficient.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Obvert quote about Georgia from yesterday: "Georgia happens to have some very dense concentrations of this virus around right now and it seems this statewide order is coming a bit late."

I knew Georgia's situation wasn't out of proportion and that the statewide order wasn't coming a bit late since local jurisdictions had managed well, so I provided this information (facts - not, as you claim, opinion):

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's some context.

Georgia is the 9th largest state in the USA. With respect to Covid-19, Georgia ranks 12th in cases and 9th in mortality.

That doesn't seem like it has been out of step. Since Georgia also has the largest airport in the world** it's somewhat surprising it's doing this well.

**Passenger traffic. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... er_traffic

Georgia happens to have some very dense concentrations of this virus around right now and it seems this statewide order is coming a bit late.

You forget that the second map I included showed the amount non-essential travel in Georgia from the previous week. Atlanta seems to be doing great. Other areas not so much.

I'm not trying to outsmart you, just using data to show that the US isn't all on the same page about this and it's going to cost lives. I wish it wasn't.

Are you stating that states as densely populated as North Dakota and Wyoming, among others, should lock themselves down because going outside would put them in a crowded area which will spread this disease?

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'm not trying to outsmart you, just using data to show that the US isn't all on the same page about this and it's going to cost lives. I wish it wasn't.

You have overlooked the detailed information provided a page or two back - facts, not opinion. Georgia and many other states are doing far better than NY.

From European perspective and listening to CNN et al, it must seem that all of non-NY USA is going to church and loitering in groups and doing their best to spread the virus. In fact, the outlying areas are doing comparatively well. Look at that data. Nobody commented on it because, I guess, it doesn't fit their narrative from CNN.

[Canoerebel]

The extent to which Obvert is out of touch with his grasp of what's going on in Georgia is his take that "Atlanta seems to be doing great."

[Canoerebel]

The daily update from my local newspaper.

Bear in mind, this is a county with two hospitals and draws Covid-19 patients from surrounding counties.

This county has had local countermeasures in place since mid-March while state ordinance went into effect on Friday.

Although we handled this mostly locally we seem to be handling it well.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Why is the US States situation more complicated than the German Lander?

For the avoidance of doubt that is a genuine question.

It's not. Most Americans simply don't know anything about the political makeup of Germany or any similarities that exist with the US.

The Lander system has worked well there as early on the regional governments all activated local labs for testing and isolating people with the virus.

There were local labs testing early on as well. One in Washington state comes to mind.

In Germany local regions tested extensively, and didn't restrict to people who'd been to Wuhan or had been in contact with an infected person, as the US guidelines did when tests were scarce. They also traced contacts effectively. The US is doing great with tests now, but the beginning could have been a lot better. I wish it had been.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... esting-us/

China developed its own test. The WHO adopted a test from German researchers and published testing protocols in mid-January. Those protocols could be adopted by other countries to produce their own tests or countries could use tests provided by the WHO. The CDC publicly shared the details of the test it designed on Jan. 24 — three days after the first case of coronavirus was confirmed in Washington state.

Government should focus on working with private industry to develop easy-to-use, rapid diagnostic tests that can be made available to providers.” Borio told NPR on Jan. 30: “The most important and effective way to control epidemics is to identify patients who are infected, exposed to the virus, and isolate them.”
Even though the United States had cases in the single digits in late January, some public health officials were increasingly worried.

But the government did almost the exact opposite of what Borio and Gottlieb proposed. CDC issued narrow guidance on which patients qualified for a test — only those with recent travel to Wuhan or those who had come into contact with an infected person.

And this from an article on early cases in WA.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/heal ... pread.html


local health officials in Seattle said that delays in being able to test for the virus had slowed identification of community cases, meaning those who did not travel to places with major outbreaks or have contact with known patients. “If we had the ability to test earlier, I’m sure we would have been able to identify patients earlier,” said Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, health officer for Seattle and King County.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The extent to which Obvert is out of touch with his grasp of what's going on in Georgia is his take that "Atlanta seems to be doing great."

If you look at the map I posted you'd see that they actually didn't extensively travel and mostly stayed at home, according to the data. Just using the map.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'm not trying to outsmart you, just using data to show that the US isn't all on the same page about this and it's going to cost lives. I wish it wasn't.

You have overlooked the detailed information provided a page or two back - facts, not opinion. Georgia and many other states are doing far better than NY.

From European perspective and listening to CNN et al, it must seem that all of non-NY USA is going to church and loitering in groups and doing their best to spread the virus. In fact, the outlying areas are doing comparatively well. Look at that data. Nobody commented on it because, I guess, it doesn't fit their narrative from CNN.

I don't watch CNN. Sorry you dislike it. I do too, by the way. Did you know that? Or did you make an assumption again about me?

You're fighting for your backyard and I'm trying to see a bigger picture. Fine. Take your backyard.

[Canoerebel]

How exactly do people know who is traveling and who isn't? You didn't post a link to that map, but I'd like to take a closer look. I don't see how anybody can tally who is traveling and who isn't.

I suspect the map shows something else or is presented in such a way that lends itself to misinterpretation.

Taliaferro in the NE section of the state,is bright orange. It's one of our smallest counties - something like 2,000 people. If it has a few cases, the pro-rata percentage would be high.

Post that link and I'll take a look.

As for I'm "fighting for my backyard" while you're "trying to see the bigger picture," that's the quintessential Obvert kind of sneaky, snarky way of slipping in digs. As you know very well, I've posted countlessly in here about the USA and Europe and other places.

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The extent to which Obvert is out of touch with his grasp of what's going on in Georgia is his take that "Atlanta seems to be doing great."

If you look at the map I posted you'd see that they actually didn't extensively travel and mostly stayed at home, according to the data. Just using the map.

[Canoerebel]

I didn't say you watch CNN. I said "from a European perspective," referring to many comments in here today from folks on your side of the Atlantic who watched CNN and came up with some interesting impressions of a lot of people in this country.

ORIGINAL: obvert

...

I don't watch CNN. Sorry you dislike it. I do too, by the way. Did you know that? Or did you make an assumption again about me?
...

[Cap Mandrake]

Here is the likely source of confusion. The CDC published an update on March 30 which clarified new information on "pre-symptomatic" and "asymptomatic". The former means individuals known to have the virus in their respiratory tract or gut with no symptoms YET.

The latter are those individuals proven to have the virus but NEVER have symptoms. The presence and size of the latter group has recently been better delineated. The Governor said the state medical director told him it was a "game changer". That is largely true. If there is a large reservoir of persistently infectious yet entirely asymptomatic patients the damn thing is MORE dangerous.

Of course, being a science guy I figured this out myself in January when I saw the Chinese data which seemed to largely skip children (who probably harbor more asymptomatic cases). The Governor is not a science guy and he had to wait for his advisers to clarify it.

[Encircled]

Looks like thats a dig at the Europeans.

Cheers for that.

[Canoerebel]

Thanks, Cap. It was that info that persuaded the governor to switch to a statewide edict. CDC releases it on 3/30, governor announced on April 1 and it went into effect on April 3.