Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
Nadia, along with six other big cats, is thought to have been infected by an asymptomatic zoo keeper.
The cats started showing symptoms, including a dry cough, late last month after exposure to the employee, who has not been identified.
ORIGINAL: Ian R
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
Nadia, along with six other big cats, is thought to have been infected by an asymptomatic zoo keeper.
The cats started showing symptoms, including a dry cough, late last month after exposure to the employee, who has not been identified.
Has anyone seen any indication of how it was transmitted?
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
Did Bill Gates Just Reveal the Reason Behind the Lock-Downs?
Apr 4, 2020
https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/04/did ... ock-downs/
"On March 24 Bill Gates gave a highly revelatory 50-minute interview (above) to Chris Anderson. Anderson is the Curator of TED, the non-profit that runs the TED Talks."
""It appears that rather than let the population be exposed to the virus and most develop antibodies that give them natural, long-lasting immunity to COVID-19, Gates and his colleagues far prefer to create a vast, hugely expensive, new system of manufacturing and selling billions of test kits, and in parallel very quickly developing and selling billions of antivirals and vaccines." "
"Easily" maybe sometimes, but what might be easy for one person in a given situation might be very difficult for someone else. Plus how much time do people have to devote to the task? Yes, there is laziness too.ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: witpqs
We all read and see some news, the trouble is figuring out what actually has happened and what has not happened based on news reports. It isn't easy, and it sure is frustrating.
Not to mention exploited by some. It takes effort to figure out whether somebody is reporting the truth to you or not, and most people don't make that effort.
Those who mistrust the press could easily find trustworthy sources, if they chose to put in the effort and adopted good newsreading habits.
But most people don't, because it can be frustrating. Welcome to the real world.
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
This has been a great thread, doing exactly what I had hoped. We've gotten a lot of great information from a lot of people everywhere. We've had people with particular expertise weigh in with their own thoughts. There are differences of opinion but mostly folks get along and self-regulate. I've taken thoughts posted in here by John Dillworth, Obvert, RFalvo, Chickenboy, Cap Mandrake and shared them with my family, both in writing and in conversation. This is an excellent community. In person, I believe everyone here would be most gracious to everybody else. Without exception.
I've known many of the people in here for years. Over that time, most of them have built up tremendous deposits of good will. If they've said the wrong thing in here, from time, to time, those can be overlooked (mostly, usually) because they have such established records. That's happened a few times.
There is one person in here who overdrew his account of good will seriously. He's made the atmosphere poisonous. He's provoked other members to various expressions of outrage or leaving. I've seen people who have never had a discouraging word become uncharacteristically miffed at him, but it's not them. It's him. He's the poison.
And he has his enablers. While most people in here say what they think, there is one who tells others what to think. He cloaks his words in "I want to build bridges" while doing his work and tearing them down. When he gets things absolutely, demonstratively wrong, he slips away in the dark. Always, 100% of the time, refuses to acknowledge a mistake.
There is one other that internalizes things and sees boogeymen where there aren't any. A few days ago, he posted that it was an age thing for me; that I was picking on him and others because of generational matters, which isn't true. Until that moment, I had no idea how old he was. From the context of his comment, I now suppose he's in his 30s or 40s but for all I knew, until then, he was my age or 20 or 80. Another fellow I know pretty well is, I think, in his late 40s, but's that's my age (or so I think). The poisoner is comparatively younger based on a comment he made a year ago in another thread, but I'm not sure. It doesn't matter.
Or is there some component to generational things that explains the behavior of these three? Is that why the poisoner and his enablers insist on keeping everything public? Is that why they refused every request to keep this private or take matters private? Is this a Facebook way of doing things? (Probably not - there are undoubtedly a bunch of folks in here, younger and older, who use Facebook but don't act this way.)
I have the poisoner on Ignore and it's worked pretty well - not perfectly, but well. I'm adding his two enablers. They've seriously drawn on their stock of goodwill. Not overdrawn though. I'll be glad to discuss things privately with them at length, in depth. Always have been.
Every person in here is a good man in person, I believe. Even the one who poisoned this thread.
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
I read Fox news and Daily Wire and Briebart. Guess that makes me a brainwashed right winger from your perspective.
I also read CNN for entertainment and a look at how the leftists are slanting their presentation of the news.
As CR pointed out, most religious institutions have suspended group services voluntarily, regardless of whether, or not, their Governors, as our Florida Governor has done, allows them to continue to congregate.
There will always be a fringe few, under any mandated restrictions, that refuse to obey voluntary guidelines. There will even be some who defy mandatory guidelines. Using a few examples that have had the spotlight of scrutiny shined upon them by them by the media as representative of the whole is short sighted.
There will always be a fringe few, under any mandated restrictions, that refuse to obey voluntary guidelines. There will even be some who defy mandatory guidelines. Using a few examples that have had the spotlight of scrutiny shined upon them by them by the media as representative of the whole is short sighted.
ORIGINAL: Encircled
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
[To Encircled, with regard to his CNN post] I did. I told you that yesterday CNN reported that religious services were permitted in Georgia. They essentially aren't. CNN also significantly misplayed a statement made by the governor of Georgia. That's two instances I know of in the past few days, with many more going much further back.
The USA doesn't have a de facto national lockdown but the states are pretty much handling it very well. At least, well for how we operate. And many of our jurisdictions got it right ahead of the European nations (NOT, as I've emphasized over and over, because we were better but because we went "last" and thus were fortunate to learn from you all).
Right
But are 14 states refusing to ban these or not?
Its a pretty clear claim from CNN, and if its wrong, you should be able to go "No, and here is the evidence"
ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
There are many reasons for the "dithering"
--expats trying to get home
--fear of being called racist for travel bans
--tourism cancellations
--catastrophic economic consequences
--even public health consequence of economic calamity...depression, suicide, alcoholism, opiate addiction, homicide etc
ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
CNN absolutely did selectively misquote the Governor of Georgia. Bad "journalism"?
Not at CNN. [:)]. It's political. He is being punished for "stealing" the election from Stacey Abrams.
Allow regional decision making in a country with the geographic variation of the US makes a lot of sense. It allows a rolling recession. Don't forget, containment has been out the window since the first residents of Wuhan got on airplanes...probably in December.
Thanks for the comments, Erik. I had some in mind but decided to post the link by itself. One thing which caught my notice was the use of the word "trafficking", which I question because to me it connotes commerce of some sort. Certainly working with, studying, transporting, etc., but trafficking? Maybe not fair for the author to use that term.ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: witpqs
This article contains additional background on past leaks of viruses from labs in China.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15844/coronavirus-china-cover-up
[EDIT] This is from a less trustworthy site known mostly for its Anti-Musilm articles and xenophobic content in general.
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/23/gat ... slim-hate/
[font="Trebuchet MS"]The fact-checking website Snopes has found multiple false viral stories originating with Gatestone. For instance, the site claimed falsely that in London — called “Londonistan” in the piece — 423 mosques were built “on the sad ruins of English Christianity,” as 500 churches closed. But the story cherry-picked the data to ignore hundreds of newly opened churches.
Many of the fake stories have percolated into mainstream U.S. politics. Gatestone was largely responsible for the false claim that there are “no-go zones” through Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Sweden, and other European states where Muslim immigrants have set up a parallel society in which local police no longer enforce the law.[/font]
However, from my limited fact checking of links, it seems to be (mostly) well supported and researched, with links to the BBC, the Times and other reputable institutions. Curious anyway for more input on the content and possible validity.
Here is one excerpt, but there is much more about how accidental releases from Chinese labs have happened before. Much of the information comes from Chinese scientists and medical professionals, who are just as wary of their government (or more so) than many of us are. It would be good to get some input from anyone who speaks Chinese and can corroborate these sources.
"Less than 300 yards from the seafood market is the Wuhan branch of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention" wrote David Ignatius of the Washington Post.
"Researchers from that facility and the nearby Wuhan Institute of Virology have posted articles about collecting bat coronaviruses from around China, for study to prevent future illness. Did one of those samples leak, or was hazardous waste deposited in a place where it could spread?".
"Collecting viruses" presumably does not exclude the possibility of a "leaked virus". Worse, if China is not able to protect its laboratories, it needs to be held accountable and made to pay for the devastating global damage.
"Experts know the new coronavirus is not a bioweapon. They disagree on whether it could have leaked from a research lab", stated The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. Professor Richard Ebright of Rutgers University's Waksman Institute of Microbiology, and a major biosecurity expert, agreed with the Nature Medicine authors' argument that the coronavirus was not manipulated by humans. But Ebright does think it possible that the Covid-19 started as an accidental leak from a laboratory, such as one of the two in Wuhan, which are known to have been studying bat viruses:
"Virus collection or animal infection with a virus having the transmission characteristics of the outbreak virus would pose substantial risk of infection of a lab worker, and from the lab worker, the public."
Ebright has also claimed that bat coronaviruses are studied in Wuhan at Biosafety Level 2, "which provides only minimal protection" compared with the top BSL-4.
Although it sounds like conspiracy theory, there have been so many links to the labs in Wuhan that have some validity and many citations here bring up missing doctors, scientists and journalists from the December to January period of this crisis in China. there is also ample evidence the Chinese initially destroyed all evidence of this virus in the labs studying it after it was noticed in Wuhan.
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Of course there aren't enough tests to simultaneously test 1/3rd of billion people. There aren't enough medical people to COLLECT 1/3rd of billion tests or enough laboratory techs to RUN 1/3rd of billion tests or enough medical people to give results and advice to 1/3rd of a billion people.
Suppose you test 1/3rd of a billion people on Saturday and you have a million lab couriers to take the tests to the lab and a million techs running 330 labs each and everyone shows up to work on time and works on nothing else so it's all done by 2 PM and now you need 10 million nurses and doctors to call all 330 million and everyone HAS a phone and ANSWERS their phone (even the illegal aliens of which there are 20 million) and when they answer you need translators for Hmong and Que-Che and Cantonese and Swahili etc.
Now you have 35 million positives and you have to counsel them and tell them to stay home which they have already been advised to do...WHEW! Now, on Sunday, you only have 300 million to retest because some of them will have converted during the night....and there you go again.
The only practical way to measure incidence in a prospective fashion in a large population with many asymptomatic cases is with a sizable careful random sample.
In the meantime we discover Mr. Undie-Messing is a preening peacock of a statist ***-hole who has posters of Chairman Mao in his room in Mom's basement.
He probably has a mural of Chairman Mao plus Pol Pot on the ceiling of his bedroom.
Y'all can leave the personal attacks on other forumites out of this, k thanks. I don't see them disparaging you, despite ample opportunity to do so.
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Here's the situation with respect to leading countries.
The USA currently has 28 deaths per million.
We are BENEATH the curve on the model posted by Erik Rutens a few days back that shows a total of 93k mortalities over five months.
ORIGINAL: durnedwolf
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
He probably has a mural of Chairman Mao plus Pol Pot on the ceiling of his bedroom.
Y'all can leave the personal attacks on other forumites out of this, k thanks. I don't see them disparaging you, despite ample opportunity to do so.
x2 - we don't need to do this. I would also note that Cap did offer an apology later in the thread.
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
I read Fox news and Daily Wire and Briebart. Guess that makes me a brainwashed right winger from your perspective.
I also read CNN for entertainment and a look at how the leftists are slanting their presentation of the news.
As CR pointed out, most religious institutions have suspended group services voluntarily, regardless of whether, or not, their Governors, as our Florida Governor has done, allows them to continue to congregate.
There will always be a fringe few, under any mandated restrictions, that refuse to obey voluntary guidelines. There will even be some who defy mandatory guidelines. Using a few examples that have had the spotlight of scrutiny shined upon them by them by the media as representative of the whole is short sighted.
Ah look, more espousing of politics. I made a commitment to calling out the political posts, but I think I missed a few before this one in my catch-up of the drama that happened here over the weekend.
If you'd left the politics out of this post, I'd only have this to respond to, which is an actual contribution to discussion:
There will always be a fringe few, under any mandated restrictions, that refuse to obey voluntary guidelines. There will even be some who defy mandatory guidelines. Using a few examples that have had the spotlight of scrutiny shined upon them by them by the media as representative of the whole is short sighted.
This highlights why trustworthy institutions are so important.
There are certain cable and blog-style outlets masquerading as news that don't want you to trust any institutions because it benefits them and theirs at the expense of you and yours. But we should leave them out of discussion here.
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Daily mortality chart in Italy, through yesterday. Today's 525 is a big step in the right direction.
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
My sister-in-law is an internist at UPMC and got this link in a newsletter:
https://www.upmc.com/coronavirus/vaccin ... _Apr-20_e1
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Excerpt from NPR show a couple of days ago, given below with link here: https://www.npr.org/2020/04/03/82652233 ... r-scrutiny
Those are states with a few big cities and a lot of open land. Projected mortality rates for them:
1. Arkansas - 206/M
2. Iowa - 480/M
3. Nebraska - 235/M
4. North Dakota - 221/M
5. South Dakota - 231/M
Four of these five are doing better than Georgia and all are doing better than New York.
I'm glad Georgia has a statewide mandate but I don't see any evidence presented here or in preceding posts that people in, say, North Dakota aren't capable of handling this as they see fit.
