Differences between GC scenarii

[Chef Chaudard]

Hi all,

I intend to start a GC PBEM, but I wonder which scenario to choose.
The main GC scenarii are 1/2/6 and "quiet China" scenarii.

I guess that the "quiet China scenarii" involve reduced operations in China, but what are the main differences between scenarii 1, 2 and 6 ?
Is is just a question of OOB, or something more important (such as warfare doctrine, or everything else) ?

Thanks for support !

[Sardaukar]

Scenario 1 is stock GC.
Scenario 2 is Hakko Ichiu where Japan gets more stuff (Japanese OOB adjusted)
Scenario 6 is Dec 8 start with historical PH attack results, other than that, similar to Scen 1

Quiet China scenarios reduce operations in China. Note that if your units are adjacent to Japanese (when playing Allies), they might still attack you).

[Chef Chaudard]

Thanx for your answer !
If I understand well, the only difference between SC1 and 6 is the "historical PH" event.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Chef Chaudard

Thanx for your answer !
If I understand well, the only difference between SC1 and 6 is the "historical PH" event.

You are correct.

[Ian R]

I would suggest you try scenario 10 with Andymac's newest programmed opponent modules.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Chef Chaudard

Thanx for your answer !
If I understand well, the only difference between SC1 and 6 is the "historical PH" event.

Not quite. Japan also already landed in Malaya, and one of transports is heavily damaged. I haven't checked closely, but probably there were air attacks in PI, and Malaya, so Allies are short lots of planes.
Overall, Japan won't get lots of points, which it could harvest on 7th in PH, and PI.

[Macclan5]

I would honestly suggest that you NOT play any quiet China scenario.

I do not suggest this to infer the scenario is broken.

Nor because the scenario is too easy / too hard.

Simply the ground war in China both early and late are extremely instructive for a new-ish player. (i) It teaches you the fight and maneuver tactics particular to this (primarily) Naval game, (ii) it allows and effective supreme commander to engage the the IJA strategically and force it to depopulate its Manchurian garrison causing VP point loss and potentially calw back troops or minimize reinforcements for Burma

Simply - though a little bewildering at first - it is worth your time / investment / enjoyment to always play the full GC with active China

[Sardaukar]

Except AI does not suffer from lack of garrison, so won't lose points.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Chef Chaudard

Hi all,

I intend to start a GC PBEM, but I wonder which scenario to choose.
The main GC scenarii are 1/2/6 and "quiet China" scenarii.

I guess that the "quiet China scenarii" involve reduced operations in China, but what are the main differences between scenarii 1, 2 and 6 ?
Is is just a question of OOB, or something more important (such as warfare doctrine, or everything else) ?

Thanks for support !

If you're thinking of a PBEM, the 'quiet China' scenarios aren't effectively implemented. They're only really relevant for AI games.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Except AI does not suffer from lack of garrison, so won't lose points.

Destroying Japanese troops does give you more VPs. But the Chinese need a lot of supply and a little leavening with Allied AA and A/T or Tank units to hold off the bombers and tanks that are the big Japanese advantage. There is also a lot of Japanese artillery but if your Chinese are in good defensive terrain (+3 or +4) and have built at least level 4 forts, artillery and bombing should not cause too many casualties.

Getting the logistics and reinforcements sorted out is a definite learning experience. Note that the China battles play out much differently if you are using the map with stacking limits everywhere instead of just on smaller islands. Overstacking increases supply usage so either side must plan their offensives carefully.

[Kull]

Do not play ANY of the Quiet China scenarios. All three have the original AI files and haven't been touched since 2010. Every other scenario not only has AI which is significantly better, but ALSO features updated database files (to include many of the bug fixes and improvements identified by the devs who worked on the DaBabes mods). Read this thread for more information.

[RangerJoe]

Since I bought the game in 2015, does that mean that I have the updated AIs without doing anything more?

Kull, thank you for all of the work that you put into this game and for everything that you posted to help others.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Since I bought the game in 2015, does that mean that I have the updated AIs without doing anything more?

Kull, thank you for all of the work that you put into this game and for everything that you posted to help others.

Thanks for the thanks, RangerJoe! But unfortunately, no. Even the Official 11.26a release still uses all the old 2010 AIs and database. At a minimum you should update to the 2012 versions which are part of AndyMac's Patch 07 thread

Even those who play PBEM exclusively should perform these updates in order to get the database improvements:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

OK guys fair warning these will overwrite exiting scenarios and are all beta versions of the scens with the new AI files, and updated and fixed dat files for the minimal AA and ASW fixes and adjustment we needed to do

[RangerJoe]

Thank you. I am using the latest beta but I will update. I probably should just have a separate folder for all of the downloads.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Thank you. I am using the latest beta but I will update. I probably should just have a separate folder for all of the downloads.

Yeah, you don't have to update every scenario, just the one(s) you plan to play. I know that you can't update the AI in an ongoing campaign, and I *think* the same is true with the .dat files (unfortunately).

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Kull
I know that you can't update the AI in an ongoing campaign, and I *think* the same is true with the .dat files (unfortunately).

With respect to the data files, some scenario alterations can be taken up in an ongoing game. They are limited to the ship class, aircraft type, and device files. There are some limited matters in the location files that can also be changed in an editable base scenario - e.g. daily supply in a base.

Individual ships, airgroups, and ground unit edits in a scenario file do not update an ongoing game.

[inqistor]

IIRC you can add industry to empty slot in Base, and it will shows up in ongoing game. But changing amount of industry in already existing slot won't be registered.

As for changing of planes, or ship classes, I think you have to make upgrade for them to shows up. That was the case with Dutch submarines torpedo tubes, when game came out. I'm guessing, it might be possible to change TOE, if LCU haven't upgraded to it yet.

[Andy Mac]

AI in QUiet China hasn't been touched in many many years - I would stay away from those the AI is pretty much the release version

[PaxMondo]

Andy wrote the AI, so I would urge you to listen to his advice.

BTW: Mr. McPhie, nice to see you back again. Any updates from the feedback provided?

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

IIRC you can add industry to empty slot in Base, and it will shows up in ongoing game. But changing amount of industry in already existing slot won't be registered.

As for changing of planes, or ship classes, I think you have to make upgrade for them to shows up. That was the case with Dutch submarines torpedo tubes, when game came out. I'm guessing, it might be possible to change TOE, if LCU haven't upgraded to it yet.

On the ship class database, I once edited the displacement of the ARD that used to show up in Portland - to reduce it below 10k so it could go down river to the ocean. No upgrade needed.

I just ran a quick test - changing a BB class displacement and then loading a save game - and you get the message on scenario load to add data base changes.

I then went back and gave the Iowas an extra 16" turret, whilst leaving the scenario loaded. If you click the preference screen button in game, after saving your edit, you get a bright yellow font, clickable message down near the bottom:

"Add database changes to this user designed campaign?"

So you don't even need to exit you current turn.