OT: Corona virus

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Encircled



Of course some of the criticism is political, but a hell of a lot of it appears to be justified.

UK/US did something different, and the result is, well, out there for all to see.

Whether you are a Democrat, Republican, Green, labour, Tory, Lib Dem (thats me!), SNP whatever, you want to make sure the lessons from this are learnt.

To do that, you have to acknowledge mistakes.

Now if anyone thinks both the UK and the US are doing that (certainly at government level) then I'm yet to see it.

Somebody should have banned wet markets after SARS

The f****** Chicoms should not have lied to cover up the problem

The WHO should not have whored themselves out to cover the Chicoms

All flights out of China to ANYWHERE should have been banned in early January or even late December

The US should have gone on lockdown earlier but nuking the economy is a BIG decision

Miami should have banned Spring Break

New Orleans should have banned Mardi Gras

The NFL should have cancelled a live Super Bowl

The NBA should have shut down a month earlier

NY should have shut down their mass transit.

People should have followed the shutdown rules better

Lee should not have attacked the Union center on day 3

[Canoerebel]

Louisiana's outbreak began about the same time (or earlier?) than NYC. It's not a second outbreak. It's an first outbreak that has already peaked and is declining ahead of NYC.

Second, US flights from Europe go to most of the large US airports, certainly including Atlanta and Chicago. If Europe is the source of NYC's outbreak, a similar level should've been experienced in Atlanta, Chicago and other major airports. That didn't happen.

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The virus arrived at many US cities at the same time or earlier than it arrived in NY. Those other cities didn't experience massive outbreaks, either due to luck or some combination of other factors. Given your concerns, other cities already should have had raging outbreaks.

And Michigan isn't close to NYC. From NYC to Detroit is 614 miles - about the same as from London to Berlin.

I think that if you look right to the beginning the picture might be a little misleading. Remember that the virus started in China and so initially would have been coming into the US from the West Coast. I'd suggest that is why you have early start dates for places like Washington State and California. Your president took a lot of criticism for shutting down the flights in from China but it seems to me that from that perspective at least he was ahead of the curve and gave you another month or so before it started breaking out again in earnest on the East Coast fueled by infections coming from Europe (at what point were flights stopped from Italy and Spain?).

In terms of deaths/million - New York is worse than any of the European countries on 513. You then have Spain Italy and Belgium on c.350, New Jersey/France on c.250, and then Louisiana, Connecticut, Michigan and the UK on c.160-180. Massachusetts is on c120. For me that (Louisiana aside) gives support to my suggestion that the US might actually be dealing with its second outbreak.

I'm finishing my lunch break now and will have to come back to any responses this evening.

[Canoerebel]

What others may have said has nothing to do with the point you made and that I appropriately countered. The US has done comparatively well, even with the crisis in NYC.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, I don't follow. The only way to measure country to country is by deaths/M. That measure puts things into perspective.

And we are still going to be well below Germany.

Hans Bolter leapt off the deep end and implied it was anti-american to question what both our countries have done. (edit, its obviously not anti-american to question UK stuff!)

I don't think that helps when we both clearly have questions to answer.

(I leave it here btw as I don't want to get into a row over this now we've both made our points)

[Canoerebel]

As we noted in here more than a month ago, a Reuters poll found the 2/3rds of Democrats in the US perceived the crisis one way, and 1/3rd of Republicans did so. The poll wasn't suggesting that either was right or wrong; merely that people perceive it differently and that their sincerely held political views are correlated to their perceptions.

There seems to be a similar divide in the Forum, so that some folks in one group perceive things one way, those in another do so another way. Since both groups hold strong opinions, we butt heads and sometimes flames erupt.

So politics doesn't "bring the community together," as Erik Rutens put it two weeks ago (or words to that effect). It instead divides.

[Encircled]

*Sighs*

I honestly don't give two *insert appropriate swear word here* who says what and claims whatever as long as lessons are learnt.

[Canoerebel]

I don't see why you're irritated. No offense was intended nor any given. I simply replied to your contention with proper context. If that isn't acceptable, okay.

[Encircled]

The proper context would be to acknowledge that Germany has done it right Dan.

Not irritated btw, just mildly perplexed why that can't be acknowledged but hey ho, its not that important

[Canoerebel]

Well, you never acknowledged the original point.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: btd64

Good news, I tested negative after a tough night of shortness of breath and severe cough. It was my cpap that almost did me in....GP

Very glad to hear this, GP!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, I don't follow. The only way to measure country to country is by deaths/M. That measure puts things into perspective.

I disagree with the country to country comparison as the best standard - the US and Canada have huge territorial dispersion of the population that is not the norm for the world. We will be judged on whether we could have done better by recognizing the danger sooner, acting sooner and coordinating effectively both within our country and in cooperation with the rest of the world.

We share knowledge with other countries, I don't understand why we cannot coordinate/cooperate at the policy and equipment levels, and maybe staffing levels to some extent too. We share forest fire/wildfire equipment and personnel with countries as far away as Australia, why not work to suppress this beast worldwide?

Yeah, I understand that politics drives a lot of the local decisions, often for the worse because politicians want to assure people that the problem can be handled locally and they (the politicians) are the ones who can fix it for them. But I think it will not go away long-term until it is handled worldwide. With all the communication tools we have these days it should be easy to coordinate a response if there was a will to do so.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

ORIGINAL: btd64

Good news, I tested negative after a tough night of shortness of breath and severe cough. It was my cpap that almost did me in....GP

Very glad to hear this, GP!

Good news!

I haven't been using my Cpap since I dropped some weight a couple of years back ... what is your air pressure?

[RangerJoe]

Don't sleep on your back, sleep on your side.

Or on a lovely young ladies stomach. [;)]

[Ian R]

Too expensive. Also dangerous, if not snipped.

[Canoerebel]

Those are good points, BBfanboy, but perceptions will be hard to quantify. "We could have done better" is always the case, and finger pointing will be at a premium given our current environment. Analysis and self analysis will be done but it'll be a messy, imprecise exercise.

Deaths/M offers one way to measure impact. And, reading back through this thread, you'll see that there have many predictions that various US cities and states and regions were destined to suffer severe outbreaks. Those predictions were made despite distances and densities in population. But that didn't happen.

I understand your point and agree that dispersity may have been our biggest advantage. In that case, though, its hard to compare NYC against Arkansas or Tucumcari, New Mexico. Or Germany to the US.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, I don't follow. The only way to measure country to country is by deaths/M. That measure puts things into perspective.

I disagree with the country to country comparison as the best standard - the US and Canada have huge territorial dispersion of the population that is not the norm for the world. We will be judged on whether we could have done better by recognizing the danger sooner, acting sooner and coordinating effectively both within our country and in cooperation with the rest of the world.

We share knowledge with other countries, I don't understand why we cannot coordinate/cooperate at the policy and equipment levels, and maybe staffing levels to some extent too. We share forest fire/wildfire equipment and personnel with countries as far away as Australia, why not work to suppress this beast worldwide?

Yeah, I understand that politics drives a lot of the local decisions, often for the worse because politicians want to assure people that the problem can be handled locally and they (the politicians) are the ones who can fix it for them. But I think it will not go away long-term until it is handled worldwide. With all the communication tools we have these days it should be easy to coordinate a response if there was a will to do so.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Too expensive. Also dangerous, if not snipped.

I am snipped and able to afford luxuries, but you are right about the too dangerous part!

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Those are good points, BBfanboy, \

Yes, but we've gone OT. Where do you stand on Cpap machines and younger women?

To snip or not to snip, that is the question.

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Too expensive. Also dangerous, if not snipped.

I am snipped and able to afford luxuries, but you are right about the too dangerous part!

One of my two-divorce mates has been prolific in his recommendations of his urologist.

Your posting has added to the impetus to get it done.

[Canoerebel]

[X(]

I ain't been snipped and don't have a CPap machine nor a younger woman (if my wife will pardon me for saying so).

Reminds me of the dialogue between Harry, the Animal and Feldwebel Shulz in Stalag 17. Shulz showed a photo of himself as a professional wrestler.

Harry asks, "Who's the other guy?"

Shulz: "That's my wife."

Animal: "Ain't she the bitter end?"

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Too expensive. Also dangerous, if not snipped.

I am snipped and able to afford luxuries, but you are right about the too dangerous part!

One of my two-divorce mates has been prolific in his recommendations of his urologist.

Your posting has added to the impetus to get it done.

There was a guy in a local hospital. He was not in to get snipped, but they did it anyway. [:(] One week before his wedding . . . [X(]

[Ian R]

Oh dear.

Law suit?