OT: Corona virus

[MakeeLearn]

New study shows coronavirus travels on shoes
50% of soles of shoes from ICU medical staff tested positive for coronavirus, according to swab results
April 14, 2020,


https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/202 ... -on-shoes/


"JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – A new study out of Wuhan, China found that the coronavirus is widely distributed on the floors of hospitals treating COVID-19 patients. While concentrations of the virus were highest in ICU wards, general wards (even those not treating coronavirus patients) showed positive testing results too.

Researches said compared to floor samples of other viruses, the rate of positivity for COVID-19 was relatively high. In the study, the authors theorized this is the case because of gravity and airflow causing most virus droplets to float to the ground.

The study also found as medical staff walks around the ward, the virus can be tracked all over the floor, as indicated by the 100% rate of positivity from the floor in the pharmacy, where there were no patients. "

[Canoerebel]

Posts are pouring in at the moment, so this post is likely to follow something I haven't read yet. But just wanted to note that we've veered strongly into politics again. There's enough overlap that it's bound to happen, from time to time. For now, I'm going to err on the side of refraining from political discussion as, to this point, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything worthwhile.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Those are good points, BBfanboy, but perceptions will be hard to quantify. "We could have done better" is always the case, and finger pointing will be at a premium given our current environment. Analysis and self analysis will be done but it'll be a messy, imprecise exercise.

Deaths/M offers one way to measure impact. And, reading back through this thread, you'll see that there have many predictions that various US cities and states and regions were destined to suffer severe outbreaks. Those predictions were made despite distances and densities in population. But that didn't happen.

I understand your point and agree that dispersity may have been our biggest advantage. In that case, though, its hard to compare NYC against Arkansas or Tucumcari, New Mexico. Or Germany to the US.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, I don't follow. The only way to measure country to country is by deaths/M. That measure puts things into perspective.

I disagree with the country to country comparison as the best standard - the US and Canada have huge territorial dispersion of the population that is not the norm for the world. We will be judged on whether we could have done better by recognizing the danger sooner, acting sooner and coordinating effectively both within our country and in cooperation with the rest of the world.

We share knowledge with other countries, I don't understand why we cannot coordinate/cooperate at the policy and equipment levels, and maybe staffing levels to some extent too. We share forest fire/wildfire equipment and personnel with countries as far away as Australia, why not work to suppress this beast worldwide?

Yeah, I understand that politics drives a lot of the local decisions, often for the worse because politicians want to assure people that the problem can be handled locally and they (the politicians) are the ones who can fix it for them. But I think it will not go away long-term until it is handled worldwide. With all the communication tools we have these days it should be easy to coordinate a response if there was a will to do so.

It is.

I think the geographics of the US (and Canada) are a big advantage in checking the spread. The sheer distance between a lot of the population already is an inherent boon, but there will still be localized outbreaks even in those places unless social distancing measures are kept in effect until we're able to test, isolate, and trace everyone who comes down with it.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks, Encircled for this: "Pretty obvious that those of us from Europe are anti-Trump, but that doesn't mean we are anti-american."

I wondered about that but didn't wish to articulate it. It helps put our forum community into better context. It might help both "sides" going forward.

In the US, the electorate is divided roughly in half. That's probably true for US members of the Forum too. When you add in UK and other folks who may be anti-Trump, the forum as a whole may lean decidedly that way.

In this particular forum (as in WITP:AE), my perception is quite different.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Encircled



And we are still going to be well below Germany.

Hans Bolter leapt off the deep end and implied it was anti-american to question what both our countries have done. (edit, its obviously not anti-american to question UK stuff!)

I don't think that helps when we both clearly have questions to answer.

(I leave it here btw as I don't want to get into a row over this now we've both made our points)

Anti-American is Anti-American no matter how you try to cloak it.
Please show me wear I accused some one of being anti-American for asking a simple question.
You will likely find that the so called question was composed in a manner that lectured and or postured an anti-American position in the process of asking what became a not so simple question because of the manner in which it was couched.

The claims of innocence when we are all quite capable of reading the innuendo is something I find to be reprehensible.

Being anti-Trump is not anti-american. Pretty obvious that those of us from Europe are anti-Trump, but that doesn't mean we are anti-american. I'm certainly of the opinion that one country tends to be top dog, and its better being the US than the alternatives.

We are all students of history ffs, we all know the dangers of unquestionable belief in what the state is doing is right.

Questioning that is an essential part of our democracy, especially at times like this.

(Appreciate this is political, so happy to stop now I've made my point of view in regards to being called "anti-american")

At least half of America is anti-Trump and at least half of those who are also happen to be anti-American.

I couldn't care less who has, or has not contracted TDS.

I'm referring to the implicit, structural, anti-American bias that seems to be indigenous to many non-Americans while those affected by it are almost unaware they are even engaging in it. I'm talking about statements like the one made by Obvert that the 'discussion becomes especially productive when it becomes international'. It's a simple underhanded 'dig' implying that it isn't especially productive when its domestic. This is the kind of inherent bias that people don't even notice they are practicing.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Posts are pouring in at the moment, so this post is likely to follow something I haven't read yet. But just wanted to note that we've veered strongly into politics again. There's enough overlap that it's bound to happen, from time to time. For now, I'm going to err on the side of refraining from political discussion as, to this point, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything worthwhile.

At least it's been fairly innocuous political veering, without vitriol. But yes, +1.

[Lokasenna]

Apropos air travel between the US and China.

From February 4: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/04/ ... a-flights/

Using that, I found:

Effective Sunday, February 2nd at 5:00 PM EST, Americans flying to the United States from China will be re-routed to the following airports at no cost to the traveler:

John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), New York
Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD), Illinois
San Francisco International Airport (SFO), California
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA), Washington
Daniel K. Inouye International Airport (HNL), Hawaii
Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), California
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL), Georgia
Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), Virginia

Notably, common China-flight airports Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) and Detroit (DTW) are missing from that list.

I was going to try to find what the common China-NYC flight numbers are. Because of the "Great Circle" air routes, the flight distance between these northern Midwest/East Coast airports are not that dissimilar from the California airports.

[MakeeLearn]

Starving, angry and cannibalistic: America's rats are getting desperate amid coronavirus pandemic
14 hrs ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/new ... li=BBnbcA0


"As millions of Americans shelter indoors to combat the deadly virus, which has claimed over 21,000 U.S. lives, many businesses — including restaurants and grocery stores — have closed or limited operations, cutting off many rodents' main sources for food. On deserted streets across the country, rats are in dire survival mode, experts say."

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Starving, angry and cannibalistic: America's rats are getting desperate amid coronavirus pandemic
14 hrs ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/new ... li=BBnbcA0


"As millions of Americans shelter indoors to combat the deadly virus, which has claimed over 21,000 U.S. lives, many businesses — including restaurants and grocery stores — have closed or limited operations, cutting off many rodents' main sources for food. On deserted streets across the country, rats are in dire survival mode, experts say."

Feed them cornmeal - mixed with powdered cement! [X(]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Encircled

ORIGINAL: HansBolter





Anti-American is Anti-American no matter how you try to cloak it.
Please show me wear I accused some one of being anti-American for asking a simple question.
You will likely find that the so called question was composed in a manner that lectured and or postured an anti-American position in the process of asking what became a not so simple question because of the manner in which it was couched.

The claims of innocence when we are all quite capable of reading the innuendo is something I find to be reprehensible.

Being anti-Trump is not anti-american. Pretty obvious that those of us from Europe are anti-Trump, but that doesn't mean we are anti-american. I'm certainly of the opinion that one country tends to be top dog, and its better being the US than the alternatives.

We are all students of history ffs, we all know the dangers of unquestionable belief in what the state is doing is right.

Questioning that is an essential part of our democracy, especially at times like this.

(Appreciate this is political, so happy to stop now I've made my point of view in regards to being called "anti-american")

At least half of America is anti-Trump and at least half of those who are also happen to be anti-American.

I couldn't care less who has, or has not contracted TDS.

I'm referring to the implicit, structural, anti-American bias that seems to be indigenous to many non-Americans while those affected by it are almost unaware they are even engaging in it. I'm talking about statements like the one made by Obvert that the 'discussion becomes especially productive when it becomes international'. It's a simple underhanded 'dig' implying that it isn't especially productive when its domestic. This is the kind of inherent bias that people don't even notice they are practicing.

The clear interpretation is that it becomes especially productive as you've the international context within which to discuss the issue. However, don't let that stop your online Joe McCarthy roleplay.

Also, are you sure you really want to go into the topic of unconscious bias in this thread?

[Canoerebel]

Ah, never mind. Ain't worth it.

[Cap Mandrake]

Dec 6: Wife of Wuhan wet market case number 1 become ill with pneumonia. She has no direct exposure to Wuhan market. Wuhan doctors begin to grow suspicious.

Dec 21: Wuhan doctors detect a cluster of pneumonias with unknown cause.

Dec 25: Two hospital workers become ill with the same symptoms and are quarantined. Why were they quarantined? Because any idiot can see it is probably transmissible from person to person.

late Dec 2019: huge upswing in cases in Wuhan

By Dec 25 (and probably earlier), Chinese authorities had to know there was human transmission...yet they lied to the WHO..saying it wasn't. Then on Jan 23rd they close down Wuhan but everyone getting on the last train is wearing masks. Clearly the LOCALS already knew and they were getting out. Some were getting out of China altogether. Some were escaping to other parts of China.

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morn ... ting-lies/

Peak flights Jan 26, 1 million passengers

https://www.statista.com/statistics/109 ... -outbreak/

430,000 traveled form China to US before the ban was emplaced and after Corona virus was detected.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/c ... tions.html

[Cap Mandrake]

So, out of 430,000 China to US passengers in January. How many do you guess were already infected?

1%?..... that's 4300

0.1%....that's still 430

[Cap Mandrake]

Anyone know how much the Chinese Sovereign Wealth fund is? About $1T Even if you confiscated every cent it would not come close to the damage done to the world.

The IMF estimates this recession will be the worst recession since 1930

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

.....

That so works for me; I laughed.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Posts are pouring in at the moment, so this post is likely to follow something I haven't read yet. But just wanted to note that we've veered strongly into politics again. There's enough overlap that it's bound to happen, from time to time. For now, I'm going to err on the side of refraining from political discussion as, to this point, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything worthwhile.

At least it's been fairly innocuous political veering, without vitriol. But yes, +1.

Hey!!!! Who made you two guys hall monitors? [:D][:D][:D]

[Canoerebel]

[:'(]

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Starving, angry and cannibalistic: America's rats are getting desperate amid coronavirus pandemic
14 hrs ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/new ... li=BBnbcA0


"As millions of Americans shelter indoors to combat the deadly virus, which has claimed over 21,000 U.S. lives, many businesses — including restaurants and grocery stores — have closed or limited operations, cutting off many rodents' main sources for food. On deserted streets across the country, rats are in dire survival mode, experts say."

Feed them cornmeal - mixed with powdered cement! [X(]

Ahh - American brick-rats - you heard it here first! PETA is soooo gunna have a fit with you, Joe. Just saying... [:D][:D][:D]

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: 22sec

Two weeks ago they were calling for the President to institute a nationwide lockdown. Now they are claiming the President doesn’t have the authority to reopen the country. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Because he didn't do any nationwide lockdown, so he can't lift it.

If he had, he could.

That's federalism for ya.

I think it was slightly different than that... I recall some of the American press questioning if we should have a national lockdown. I think Fucci was recommending a National lockdown. I don't recall any state governors asking or seeking a national lockdown. Many were probably seeking recommendations from the feds and Whitehouse at the beginning of all this but nothing came out. In fact, early on in the pandemic, the Prez is on record as saying he thought states ought to make their own decisions.

I think it'll be interesting to see if this subject goes to court.

[HansBolter]

Dan,

Tried to reply to your PM, but your inbox is full......