Game complication, a detrement to the hobby?

[Lobster]

The elimination of hexes would be nice. Something where distance is determined as in the real world instead.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

The elimination of hexes would be nice. Something where distance is determined as in the real world instead.

Any idea how to represent units counters? Small flags?

[Lobster]

Same as in Command Ops 2.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

I bought Tiller's Japan '45 (the Olympic Game) but don't play it because all my time is consumed designing for CMO. So I didn't buy the most recent Japan game, not because I don't understand the system, I do (I have designed scenarios for those games as well). I don't have the time for it so why spend the money????

This argument could be used for SPWAW: It's a free game with tons of campaigns, scenarios, and mods with editors to do more. And it isn't like it's only free game out there. So why spend money on any game at all?

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Perchance to dream. Maybe someday a developer will create a wargame design kit for players to create/modify their own games/scenarios.

Have you tried this one already?

[edit]
Store search didn't find the game. I found the page by checking URL syntax for other game pages, then typed it in, and hit on the target.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Perchance to dream. Maybe someday a developer will create a wargame design kit for players to create/modify their own games/scenarios.

Have you tried this one already?

[edit]
Store search didn't find the game. I found the page by checking URL syntax for other game pages, then typed it in, and hit on the target.

Alas, the download links are no more valid in order to try it.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Same as in Command Ops 2.

I never tried it. Is it complex to play?

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Same as in Command Ops 2.

I never tried it. Is it complex to play?

The base game is free. In my opinion it's not difficult to pick up the basics.

[Hellen_slith]

Chiming in here, only to spur additional discussion.

Background: not a denialer, only a long time player of many East Front / Barbarossa type games
(currently mostly focused on TOAWIV scenes of that type)

In grad school, I took a course title "Literature of the Holocaust" 4059 (taught by a survivor)

A haunting class, that was 20+ years ago, BUT ...
it is a somewhat troublesome aspect to find now,
in ALL scenes that I have seen (re East Front)

an almost "void" w/re/to Einsatz.

There are some games / scenes that take this into account,
but mostly, I have found just that "void" w/re/to to German Einsatz.

There are a few scenes that do,
but over all, it is an area that seems to be verboten.

Don't get me wrong, but deep down, I have lately gotten the feel that,
w/o at least a heads up to what really happened,
many of the these scenes don't take into account the actual historical record.

Sometimes I wonder, if the Germans / Axis did not do what they did,
that they might have won in the end.

Something to think about. I haven't seen any studies along that line,
if you know of any, would appreciate the links or the references.

Have a great day!

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

an almost "void" w/re/to Einsatz.

Their duties involved rear area activities and some types of police units were sometimes attached to a security division. Even when attached to a security division they were not part of offensive operations unless it would be against cut off Soviet personnel. Later in 1941 they ended up facing Soviet regulars simply because the war came to them.

It isn't difficult to see how these German units would be used. All you have to do is look at a TOAW AAR like FitE2. There they are treated as Stormtroopers because of their high mobility. They range far ahead of the German infantry in a totally unreal manner that never would have happened historically. Why they are even in the game is beyond me. I was given a complete BS excuse that because they had motorcycles the German army used them this way. Never happened. It's best they are left out of the game entirely.

[kangaroos_are_cool]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

The question really is, to everyone, is have you bought less games, in favor a a few complex ones?

Absolutely.

...

For my entertainment value, WITP:AE has cost me fractions of a penny for each gaming hour spent. How could anything else compete?

I really relate to this. I would say the complexity has had the opposite effect for me - I can't really enjoy the simpler games that I used to enjoy [:)] once you've invested the time and figured out the workings of a complicated wargame, you can only focus on what's missing when it comes to more superficial outings (for reference I used to play HoI IV constantly, then had someone recommend WitE and haven't launched HoI IV since)

The learning curve is surely challenging for many of these games, but once you get past it you have this incredibly rich gaming experience that lasts you years. The big ones I've sunk a lot of time into are WitE, CMO, and Bombing the Reich, and I'm 300+ hours on each of them and just as captivated as when I began, and that's having only finished 25-30% of the scenarios for each game!! This isn't even counting the hours I've surely wasted going through the weapons databases, reading wikipedia articles about some airplane I found in the game that I didn't know about, etc.

It's surely not everyone's cup of tea, but I've found tackling the big guys immensely rewarding, and I'm extremely grateful that at least someone is creating games like this

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen
Have you tried this one already?

The War Engine was a good idea along the right lines toward a Wargame Design Kit. But it needed a hexagon map. And other enhancements.

If/when we get such a thing to be able to create Afrika Korps or Russian Campaign and other classic boardgames, then that would be great. We're not there yet... [:(]

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen
Have you tried this one already?

The War Engine was a good idea along the right lines toward a Wargame Design Kit. But it needed a hexagon map. And other enhancements.

If/when we get such a thing to be able to create Afrika Korps or Russian Campaign and other classic boardgames, then that would be great. We're not there yet... [:(]

Where can one download it to try? Seems the links are no longer working.

[MrsWargamer]

Found this 2001 download option.

https://www.old-games.com/download/6774/war-engine-the

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Found this 2001 download option.

https://www.old-games.com/download/6774/war-engine-the

Thanks MrsWargamer, not a free download but thanks.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Found this 2001 download option.

https://www.old-games.com/download/6774/war-engine-the

Thanks MrsWargamer, not a free download but thanks.

Looks & sounds like a scam. Hasn't anyone thrown C&D at them yet?

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Found this 2001 download option.

https://www.old-games.com/download/6774/war-engine-the

Thanks MrsWargamer, not a free download but thanks.

Looks & sounds like a scam. Hasn't anyone thrown C&D at them yet?

Nevermind, the Matrix link is broken in their website but the executable are still there:
http://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/TheWarEngine/

Thanks

[Pvt_Grunt]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Same as in Command Ops 2.

An excellent game

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
The War Engine was a good idea along the right lines toward a Wargame Design Kit. But it needed a hexagon map. And other enhancements.

Agreed; and it's been a long time so maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but while the Matrix site says that it was "released" in 2008, I think that's when the free version was released, and the actual game dates from the late nineties. Very dated.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Pvt_Grunt

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Same as in Command Ops 2.

An excellent game

I just installed the base game and I am trying to understand the basics. I think I should read the manual... [:D]

In all their volumes, it is very oriented Western front in 1944. With the exception of Greece, I see nothing on the Eastern front. Do you know if this is planned? Maybe i should open another thread.