OT: Corona virus

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Lokasenna
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Okay, I see what you're saying. Thank you for bearing with me as I wrapped my head around that.

So the way to approach it is to simply use deaths/M.

Of course, that can be enhanced by further input of data, but deaths/M is one way of measuring mortality in each state or country.

Indeed.

One of the things that stands out to me when looking at each state and all states in that bottom graph on the visualizations is how clustered most of the states are around the middle.


Worth looking at the outliers and why they might be so.
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Lokasenna
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Recent US funding of the WHO is running at over $500M a year. 2/3rd of that is VOLUNTARY. They aren't going to "run out of money"

The US taxpayer has been the piggy bank for the WHO forever. And what do we get? The dumbasses resisted US travel bans and delayed the pandemic classification in order to assuage Chicom feelings. Am i worried the Chinese are going to gain influence? It already happened.

Do you have sources for this? Honestly, the WHO never makes the headlines or text of anything that I read, so I'd like to see.

That's because you don't read National Review. [:)]

For good reasons...
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Lokasenna
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

More on antibody tests (serological testing).


Why Antibody Tests May Not Be the Answer
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04 ... -soon.html
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Cap Mandrake
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Cap Mandrake »

If I can read the NYT, you can read National Review once in a while.
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Canoerebel
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Canoerebel »

We've covered this point before. There is utility in reporting that is consistent, even if it lacks precision. Changing reporting, even if necessary, adds to the challenge of evaluating. Changes that are necessary should of course be done. But the more changes, the more difficult to compare one set against another.

The contention of folks in here previously was that the counting wouldn't be accurate. Now the assertion is made that it will be thoroughly done (as I've contended all along) because science and medicine want to understand things. They are going to find the best way possible.

We know that different countries and different states and most likely different localities handle things differently. Eventually that to is going to be addressed.


ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Quote from the Philadelphia Inquirer article linked to by Makee, a few posts above: "We are focused on ensuring that every New Yorker who died because of COVID-19 gets counted," Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot said in a statement, adding, "While these data reflect the tragic impact that the virus has had on our city, they will also help us to determine the scale and scope of the epidemic and guide us in our decisions."

That makes sense. The same thing was asserted in here two days ago and jumped on by a couple of forumites who disagreed and predicted rampant non-counting.

There is a large degree of under-reporting. That has been clear from the beginning.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/

You can see for yourself that the CDC acknowledge the likelihood of this and incorporate it in to there reporting (see the technical note)
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

Social distancing, for the majority, stopped here sometime over the weekend, I noticed it Monday night. Some people are wearing masks and some are keeping a distance from others. The vast majority are back to normal. This is what I see in the stores and while driving.

I do what I must to keep those I have to be around safe.






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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

Coronavirus 'contact tracing' needed to relax Oregon, Wash. social distancing measures
Wednesday, April 15th 2020


https://katu.com/news/local/increased-c ... distancing



"PORTLAND, Ore. — In order to re-open parts of Oregon's economy and relax social distancing measures in place to fight the spread of COVID-19, public health experts say communities will need to ramp up efforts to contact people who may have been exposed to the virus. "


""Social distancing is a tool. We have testing as a tool, and contact tracing is another tool," said Carlos J. Crespo, DrPH, a Professor at the OHSU-PSU School of Public Health."


"Technology could play a major role in contact tracing.

Currently, Apple and Google are developing a program using Bluetooth technology to assist public health agencies with contact tracing. "






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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
2 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coron ... li=BBnbcA1


"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Sweeping testing of the entire crew of the coronavirus-stricken U.S. aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt may have revealed a clue about the pandemic: The majority of the positive cases so far are among sailors who are asymptomatic, officials say.

The possibility that the coronavirus spreads in a mostly stealthy mode among a population of largely young, healthy people showing no symptoms could have major implications for U.S. policy-makers, who are considering how and when to reopen the economy."


""I don't know if we're proving something different," Sawyer said.

"I do agree that we are providing some data that some other organizations might not have.""






mind_messing
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

We've covered this point before. There is utility in reporting that is consistent, even if it lacks precision. Changing reporting, even if necessary, adds to the challenge of evaluating. Changes that are necessary should of course be done. But the more changes, the more difficult to compare one set against another.

The contention of folks in here previously was that the counting wouldn't be accurate. Now the assertion is made that it will be thoroughly done (as I've contended all along) because science and medicine want to understand things. They are going to find the best way possible.

We know that different countries and different states and most likely different localities handle things differently. Eventually that to is going to be addressed.

The point that you seem to be failing to grasp (or simply don't wish to) is that the counting has already been inaccurate, by some degree, as evidenced by the omissions of certain groups in the "official" tolls. This has happened in the UK (and France also IIRC).

This is something you need to understand before you pass judgement on the daily projection of whatever area strikes your fancy. The projection is one thing, the "official" total another. The actual true value is something else completely.
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Canoerebel
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Canoerebel »

Countries have overcounted and undercounted. Ditto states. They'll eventually get it right, or get some consistency. Even if East Urbania counts differently than other countries, scientist and mathematicians in those countries will correct so that there are uniform ways of measuring. None of this will be perfect, but it'll be the best that they can do.

As for you snide comments, that is who you are.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

Coronavirus: Indiana will join 6 other Midwestern states on when, how to reopen economies
April 16, 2020


https://www.indystar.com/story/news/202 ... 147027002/


"Seven Midwestern governors announced today that they will band together to decide when and how they will reopen their economies following the peak of the novel coronavirus while avoiding a resurgence.

Indiana will join Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois and Kentucky to jointly make decisions about when and how to safely reopen the Midwestern states.

"We recognize that our economies are all reliant on each other," the governors said in a joint statement.

"Phasing in sectors of our economy will be most effective when we work together as a region," the statement said. "This doesn't mean our economy will reopen at once, or that every state will take the same steps at the same time. But close coordination will ensure we get this right.""






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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

Hunt for origin of coronavirus raises new US-China tensions
49 minutes ago


https://www.ft.com/content/aa5f37ab-4d6 ... 044524c4fe

"But there are signs that China is not sharing all the information the rest of the world is eager to see. Although it has been widely presumed that the virus emerged from animals in a live food market in Wuhan, scientists who have studied its genetics say there is no clear evidence this was the source.

US officials are pressing for China to share more data about the disease from the period before December 31, the day the authorities reported to the World Health Organization a cluster of cases of pneumonia in Wuhan."


"A researcher at Wuhan Institute of Virology, who declined to be named, said China had not shared samples of live virus with the WHO as the country “had already published plenty of information” such as the genetic code of the coronavirus.

Chinese authorities made public the genetic sequence of coronavirus on January 12, and Chinese researchers subsequently flagged incidences of the disease dating back to December 1. But the WHO and other scientists now say it could have first passed from an animal to a human more than six months ago, as early as October 2019.
"






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Chickenboy
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

More on antibody tests (serological testing).


Why Antibody Tests May Not Be the Answer
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04 ... -soon.html

I wanted to keep my distance from this thread due to the political vitriol in it. I'm replying to your post, but not suggesting that you have been the origin of it. But since you posted this article, I need to chime in and say my piece about this and other ballyhooed 'health passports' and the like.

The article is accurate, albeit incomplete regarding the issue with giving someone a clean bill of health due to antibody presence. I've heard all manner of pundits saying that we should 'restart the economy' after someone has shown that they're immune to the agent (e.g., they've seroconverted). Of course, absent vaccination, the only way someone can seroconvert to a novel agent is by previous exposure to the 'wild type' or 'field strain' virus.

Let's make some assumptions, as we have incomplete information. Let's assume that the 667,000 'cases' in the United States are in fact really-o truly-o cases. 100% specificity. Now we need to assume a figure for the number of Americans that have / had the disease that were not tested for the virus for whatever reason. It's unknown really. Say we say double that 'confirmed' figure? So, about 1.3M cases domestically.

Let's also assume that everybody that has had the virus will mount an effective and detectable immune response. We know this isn't the case-there have been some instances of infected and recovered children that don't have detectable antibody titers. Very worrisome if this is widespread. Still, I'd wager that "most" people that were sickened will mount an effective immune response. Let's say 100% for the sake of argument.

The problem with waiting to restart the economy until everyone seroconverts is just a numbers game right now.

First off, the tests (or at least the ability to test large volumes of people outside of small studies) doesn't exist yet. As the article said, it may take a year to get one out there. Then there's the matter of testing and interpreting the value of those tests relative to the population at the time.

In a country of 340M people, using the assumptions above, we have a prevalence of about 0.35%. Well outside the confidence interval of predictive value for most 'quicky' serological assays. Here's what CDC has to say about use of serology to diagnose influenza:

Routine serological testing for influenza requires paired acute and convalescent sera, does not provide results to help with clinical decision-making, is only available at a limited number of public health or research laboratories and is not generally recommended, except for research and public health investigations. Serological testing results for antibodies to human influenza viruses on a single serum specimen is not interpretable and is not recommended.

We don't know what titer is protective or detectable for COVID-19 recoverers. We don't know what test we would use for detection of COVID-19 seroconverters. ELISA (as opposed to VN, CF or other serologic assays) is probably the best way to test large numbers of people, but nobody has anything like that out there yet.

A very small subset of our population will be exposed to this virus. From a public health serosurveillance perspective, this is actually more problematic than having "50-70%" of the people exposed to it over time-we won't 'get there'. So we'll have a very small number of people that have had the virus. Trying to find that needle in a haystack will require us to mass test everybody with a test that will not yield interpretational meaning. And it'll take us >1 year to get there anyways.

Earlier in this thread (first few pages?) I reiterated that diagnostic laboratory testing is best used as a decision making tool. If X result then Y decision. And you decide the next way you want to go based upon the test. But when the test is not available, real time decisions need to be made anyways. As Cap mentioned, testing delay devalued the use of the PCR test in clinical treatment. Patients that were very likely positive were treated as presumptive cases and dealt with accordingly-they didn't wait for a test before they could be treated. If the test doesn't help you make efficient decisions in real time (or near real time), then you go with your best guess.

For these technical reasons, we cannot wait to reopen the economy until we have a serologic 'health passport' for American workers. In an ideal world, we could flip that switch and have instant and universal knowledge. But the amount of time and the value of the information gleaned from such testing would not be worth returning to a job market that has withered on the vine.

We've got to do the best we have with the 'tools' available to us, IMO. Waiting for 'testing to improve' is a recipe for economic disaster.
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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
... is a recipe for economic disaster.


That's along the lines of how people here are thinking. The older people have been the most "out there" living life.






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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

"What do ya' think Sarge?"

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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

We've discussed previously the proliferation of dreams (I lost the link to this story and now can't find it, but it was posted online today).

The first time dreams was brought up was about three weeks ago, both Chickenboy and Cap Mandrake mentioned they were having them.

As we noted, Stephen King used dreams in his pandemic novel, The Stand, written in the '80s.

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I'am sleeping like a baby.

With a thumb in your mouth and a diaper on your butt?
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! :o

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
:twisted: ; Julia Child


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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

We've discussed previously the proliferation of dreams (I lost the link to this story and now can't find it, but it was posted online today).

The first time dreams was brought up was about three weeks ago, both Chickenboy and Cap Mandrake mentioned they were having them.

As we noted, Stephen King used dreams in his pandemic novel, The Stand, written in the '80s.

Image

I'am sleeping like a baby.

With a thumb in your mouth and a diaper on your butt?


[:D] Close. In the nude sucking on a tit.






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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

Can I say tit?


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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

This beautiful tit is found in China.

White-browed Tit-Warbler





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MakeeLearn
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by MakeeLearn »

There is something very coronaviry about that tit.






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