Japanese Economy Advice

[RangerJoe]

1) by ship

2) yes, if the factories are completely repaired they can be shifted to the next one in line with NO damage to the factories. Save before doing in case you make a mistake. Then save afterwards.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

2.) For R&D do you select the next plane in the chain then move the factories to the next one in line once they’re repaired etc?

Be careful with this. Not all factories will upgrade to the 'next in line'. For example, scenario 1 wirechart shows Ki-61-1b upgrading to Ki-61-1d, not -1c. -1c model is a separate research tree that also feeds into -1d, but you can't get to the -1c through the -1b.

Ki-67-ia T ("Peggy T") is a different research line than Ki-67-1a also. Both lead to Ki-67-1b, but the "T" model must be researched first if you want it (or else you get it at historical availability).

Ki-45 KA1a ("Nick") upgrades through a typical 1a-1b-1c framework. But the 1b and 1c models suck, so you may not want to upgrade.

A6M2 doesn't go to A6M3/5 line directly. You will want A6M5 planes for replacement before going through the A6M2 SenBaku (2/44) subline goes into A6M5b, so channel your research accordingly after looking at the wire chart.

[RangerJoe]

Yes, you have to be aware of what air frame upgrades to another. That is why I suggested saving before changing anything, then saving right afterwards.

Also note the engines that you will need. For some aircraft, you might want to increase production now to be able to have a nice stockpile. Especially if you want the "research bonus" of 500+ engines but be aware that each time it is used, one engine is gone.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

1) by ship

[:D] LOL yes I know by cargo or Transport TF after playing this for 6 years. I meant more that I swear I remember some auto movement of things in some areas if port levels are high enough or am I getting senile with my middle age now? [;)]

[RangerJoe]

Senile. The ports need to be 1 hex apart with blue between them, not green nor red. There also has to be a demand, So between Fusan and the Home Islands, it needs to go by ship. Between Hokkaido and Honshu, it needs to go by ship because it does not meet the criteria for auto movement.

[Speedysteve]

Ok. Grazie

[Speedysteve]

Also. Is there a link to the wirechart for plane upgrades? I remember some of them but not all.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Also. Is there a link to the wirechart for plane upgrades? I remember some of them but not all.

You can always look up the current upgrade paths in the intelligence screen -> Aircraft replacement pool -> last column

[RangerJoe]

There is but I don't know where it is. It also depends upon the scenario.

What I did was to do a spreadsheet with all of the air frames and engines. I had the upgrade line for each air frame and engine combination. When it upgraded to a new engine, I put that air frame with the old engine but then started a new line. That way, I could sort them by the type of engine, then see which engines I wanted to make lots of and which ones that I will not bother with. I will not make the first Tonys but I will make the Ki-100s since they are a decent aircraft with a SR of 1. This way, I do not have to even make the engines for the first Tonys since no other air craft uses them. The same for the first Judys. I am doing so for the first Jill but I will have a need for many torpedo bombers.

[RangerJoe]

Try this thread and see if it is what you want:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3200810

Here are other links to bookmark:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4726264

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2920431

Depending upon how much raiding that you want to do with surface and/or carrier task forces, having more AKEs and ADs will be useful. The ADs will also help with repairs.

[btd64]

Here's the flow chart you're looking for. Good for scenario's 1 or 2....GP

[RangerJoe]

Check the flowchart for errors. I believe that the Frank a does not lead to the Frank b. They both lead to the Frank r.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Check the flowchart for errors. I believe that the Frank a does not lead to the Frank b. They both lead to the Frank r.

Yes, there maybe some fixes needed. But I think I got these from the author after some fixes....GP

[RangerJoe]

It had the error that I mentioned in it.

Also, I think that the Tojo in Scenario 1 uses the same engine as the Helen. In Scenario 2, it uses the same engine as the Oscar and Zero. That makes a difference for engine production considerations.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: btd64

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Check the flowchart for errors. I believe that the Frank a does not lead to the Frank b. They both lead to the Frank r.

Yes, there maybe some fixes needed. But I think I got these from the author after some fixes....GP

This is exactly why intelligence screen usage is adviceable

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

It had the error that I mentioned in it.

Also, I think that the Tojo in Scenario 1 uses the same engine as the Helen. In Scenario 2, it uses the same engine as the Oscar and Zero. That makes a difference for engine production considerations.

That is true. This discrepancy *is* in Hanzberger's Sc. 1 / 2 line diagrams however.

[Speedysteve]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the above.

I've spent a good few hours creating a spreadsheet and deciding on my streamlined R&D. Here's my current plan of focus:

IJN
----

A6M5C (via Rufe)
J2M2 Jack (final model doesn't seem worth it)
A7M2 Sam

P1Y2-S Frances

D4Y3/D4Y4 Judy

B6N2 Jill

P1Y2 Frances

IJA
-----

Ki-44-IIC Tojo
Ki-84a Frank
Ki-84r Frank
Ki-43-IV Oscar
Ki-102a Randy

Ki-45 KAIa Nick (found them handy in my last game for at least turning away 4E's if not shooting loads down)

Ki-102c Randy

Ki-67-1a Peggy
Ki-67-1a (T) Peggy

Shame some planes like the Frank and Sam have no previous planes you can research and convert to them but c'est la vie.

Am not planning to research any Recon, transport etc.

Thoughts?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Thoughts?

Some thoughts.

IJN:

- I'd cut out some R&D for the 5c Zero and put it towards another late-war airframe. Shinden would be my suggestion, as its a bit more resilient than the jet fighter. The Sam is essential but it falls off big time as the war progresses.

- The B7A2 should be on your list, excellent in either the dive bomber or torpedo bomber role.

Other than that, looks good.

IJA:

- Research the Peggy (T) only, no need to do the regular version as well. The (T) will carry the same bombload regardless.

- I would skip the Tojo, just isn't worthwhile as it falls off a cliff and its role can be filled by the Nick, as you note.

- Frank and Randy both good choices.

- I like the Ki-100 Tony to bulk out the IJA, and you can get it quite early with chaining it from earlier Tony models.

- The Frank and Randy won't be able to hold the line in the late-war, so I'd add a later war fighter to the mix as well. Take your pick of the Ki-83, Ki-94-II or the Ki-201. IMO the 83 is the best bang for your buck.

- IJA night fighter?

- Ki-48IIb Lily isn't there, but if you're not R&Ding it, it's worth waiting till 1/43 to produce. Only IJA dive bomber and helps a lot with anti-shipping.

- Consider Ki-74 Patsy for late-war. 36 hexes of range, which can put a lot of the Allied rear areas in danger (and amazing for kamikaze strikes).

Happy to discuss more if you'd like.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Shame some planes like the Frank and Sam have no previous planes you can research and convert to them but c'est la vie.

Thoughts?

Well, not exactly. You get to the Ki-84r through (either) the Ki-84a or the Ki-84b. As the -a model comes into existence much sooner than either the -b or the -r model, why not 'double' your factories to research the Ki-84a and start producing it with half your factories when you get there? Then switch over the other half your factories (before they start construction of -a) to the -r down the line.

When you switch them over, they should be at 100% research repair status and can immediately start cranking out research points on the -r unit. Otherwise, you'll be waiting on your -r research factories for much longer than you need to do so.

Same idea with Ki-43. Start with 5 research factories towards the IIa as an example. When you get there, keep 2x factories for construction and rotate the remaining ones up the line. You should be able to go anywhere on the chain you want at that point with no factory damage since they're all in the same research tree sequentially. I will have 1 factory research Ki-43 III and two research Ki-43 IV. Now you can be completing research on these units in early-mid 1942 and effectively 'pull them forward' much sooner than if you started the game researching the Ki-43 IV organically from the get go.

I use this 'research tree bonus' on all lines that start with an early war 'progenitor' model in the same family. You're on target with the Rufe-A6M5 line, but you'll probably want A6M5 before you wait for A6M5c.

My personal favorite is to do this on the Ki-44 line. Start with 8 factories for the Ki-44 IIa. Research it until all Ki-44-IIa factories are 100% repaired. Then switch some of them up the chain to Ki-44-IIc. You can forego the -IIb as it sucks. You can be doing research on a late 1944 aircraft in early-mid 1942. With the engine bonus and several factories researching it, you can pull it into the Fall of 1942. I've done this with my game and I think the Ki-44-IIc will be a mainstay in my IJAAF for 1943 (while I'm banging away on Ki-84a research).

This is a weird concept that lots of newcomers don't get. Please confirm that you follow this line of reasoning, as it's fundamental to getting late war aircraft *years* earlier than scheduled.

[ITAKLinus]

In one of my two PBEMs I have roughly this setting:


- 8 factories to A6M8 straight from Rufe. I will put A6M5/A6M5c in escort on CVs later on when it comes online naturally. I want a good CAP ASAP, though. Engine bonus.
- 8 factories on the Oscar line. I research each plane but I do produce only the -Ic, the -IIa and the -IV.
- 6 factories on the Tojo. I get the initial Tojo-IIa and then I skip directly to the final Tojo-IIc. I produce very few Tojo-IIa.
- 16 factories on the Frank-b. I wanted to try to go for it instead of -a and then -r as usual.
- 6 factories on Jack. I am a strong proponent of George but I wanted something new in my lineup.
- 8 factories on the Judy. Straight to Judy-IV once they're repaired.
- Few factories here and there. Most of the remaining ones are on the Pegy(T).

Production in mid-42:
- 100 A6M2 (factories closed 30% of the time)
- 150 Oscar-Ic (factories closed 30% of the time)
- 120 Helen-IIa
- 50 long range Nell
- 20 Emily
- 5 Mavis-TR
- 20 Thalia
- 35 Nate (until engines finish)
- 20 Ida (same as Nate)
- 50 Jake (FP groups around resized)
- 50 Kate
- 50 Val
- 30 Dinah-II (until engines finish)
- 50 Nick
- 30 Lily
- 50 Sally
- 20 Glen (until engines finish)
- 15 Ann (until engines finish)
- 20 Rufe (Rufe groups resized to 24 each)

Rationale behind the production is to have a strong potential production but not wast HI. I do the whole Oscar line and it's gonna be my SR fighter for most of the war, so I am somehow fine in having very large factories. A6M2 will be phased out on CVs by A6M8 relatively quickly, but I keep the factory closed and switch it back to production once the SenBaku comes online, since you can upgrade the A6M2 factory to Sen Baku and then to A6M8.

I do produce huge amounts of bombers 2E and I advice against it. Simply, I have extremely demanding land campaigns around the map. In my other PBEM I produce 200 Helen-IIa per-month and I am unable to keep groups at strength now in mid-43.

Generally, I like to have deep pools of planes I know I'm gonna use anyway. In this way I can focus my production on some a/c for a while and then change the factory output to something different once I know that the pool I created is gonna last for the war.

In other words, I extensively produce in "lots" rather than in "flows". So far, everything fine. In the above PBEM we are at like 01-aug-42 and I have 400k HI points in the bank even if I have expanded NavShipyard to 1.700
In the other one I'm sailing over 1.5M HI in mid-43 even if I produce many bombers (something like 350 2E per-month) and fighters (400 per-month) and I have expanded vehicles to 350.

What I mean is that you can do whatever you want, just, be extremely careful supply-wise.