OT: Corona virus

[Canoerebel]

University of Washington has issued revised mortality projections.

Georgia is down sharply, to 2k (from 2.5k).

[Canoerebel]

Many states, including California, Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Wyoming, continue to have low projections (either absolute or per capita).

The northeastern quadrant remains most troublesome.

It continues to appear that U. Wash. models don't foresee new outbreaks in most major urban areas outside the northeast.

Illinois is a real outlier. It already has 2,215 deaths (Worldometers), which is modest per capita. Univ. of Washington projects a steep decline ending in total mortality of 2,337. That would be just 100 more fatalities. That doesn't seem possible.

[Canoerebel]

UK projections dropped to 27k. Since it's already at 26k, that too seems highly unlikely.

It's possible that changes in tabulation methodology (what's counted and what isn't) is throwing (or will throw) monkey wrenches into the models.

[Canoerebel]

Yeah, UK numbers just popped up on Worldometers, with 674 deaths today, bringing the total to 26,771. No way the Univ. of Washington projection will be in the right ballpark.

Yesterday's big addition to UK's reported deaths probably threw the projection off.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert


Insulin pricing in the United States is the consequence of the exact opposite of a free market: extended monopoly on a lifesaving product in which prices can be increased at will, taking advantage of regulatory and legal restrictions on market entry and importation.

Third, the arguments that high costs are needed for continued innovation and that attempts to lower or regulate the prices will hamper innovation are not a valid excuse.13 There is limited innovation when it comes to insulin; the more pressing need is affordability.[/color]

Nothing happens in a vacuum...the medical system in the US is far, far removed from a free market thanks a lot to Obama Care which increased the cost of healthcare substantially.

Those companies that make and distribute insulin do other things too.

You miss that insulin costs less everywhere else. And that there are a huge number of people dependent on it, solely, for their life.

How is insulin cheap elsewhere, and in the free market that is the US, it is artificially highly priced?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

I hear you.

I think what the republicans who are paying for that ad say is that Trump is an elected official in charge of setting policy for the nation, and instead ...

I would hope that any elected official that violates a state's lockdown to go golfing would be run out of office. I don't care what party they are in.

My statement is not political but rather procedural.

I agree. In principal. I don't think that will ever happen though.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert



How is insulin cheap elsewhere, and in the free market that is the US, it is artificially highly priced?

Because there isn't a free market in the US with respect to medicine.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Many states, including California, Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Wyoming, continue to have low projections (either absolute or per capita).

The northeastern quadrant remains most troublesome.

It continues to appear that U. Wash. models don't foresee new outbreaks in most major urban areas outside the northeast.

Illinois is a real outlier. It already has 2,215 deaths (Worldometers), which is modest per capita. Univ. of Washington projects a steep decline ending in total mortality of 2,337. That would be just 100 more fatalities. That doesn't seem possible.

Is the Washington State model supposed to correlate to the Worldometer numbers?

[Cap Mandrake]

Actually, there is considerable innovation over insulins. I don't think the poorest countries in the world use cadavaric human insulin any more.

Humalog is "Lispro" (substitution of a Lysine for a Proline). It's completely synthetic. The recent "basal insulins" (with extremely long half lives) have greatly improved management. Does Humalog cost "too much"? Is the Pope Catholic?

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert



How is insulin cheap elsewhere, and in the free market that is the US, it is artificially highly priced?

Because there isn't a free market in the US with respect to medicine.

The man got it right.

[Canoerebel]

No, there's no connection, so far as I know.

But if U. Wash. projects X mortalities for Y, and if Worldometers reports X + 25k deaths for that country, something's amiss.

[Lowpe]

Unintended consequence of the Virus Lockdown:

Dirty money piling up in L.A. as coronavirus cripples international money laundering

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... to-a-crawl

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: obvert
. If you don't recognise the discriminatory history of the US in regard to black and brown Americans, the civil rights movement and the existing legacy of those institutions then it'll be hard to discuss this on the same plane.

Keyword: HISTORY as in ancient history.

Institutionalized Racism simply does not exist anymore.

Every Institution in the US has been providing special treatment to people of color and discriminating against non-people of color for somewhere around thirty years now in a misguided attempt to redress PAST discrimination.

There is no institution in the US today that could even dream of getting away with racist treatment of people of color.

That Institutionalized Racism exists in America today is a leftist fabrication.

Sooner or later you are going to have to step outside of that bubble you are living in.

Many of the people still alive today were alive, educated, and lived in a segregated and unequal society. Their lives and possible opportunities were altered regardless of subsequent changes in law. This is recent history. Many working age Americans were raised by parents who suffered these inequalities. That legacy and the legacy of poverty linked to this past are still in the present and relate to healthcare among many other things.

Here is an exercise our school community engaged in to understand more about what experiences are different for people of racially different backgrounds. It's called a privilege walk.

-----------------------------

If your ancestors were forced to come to the USA not by choice, take one step back.

If you were ever called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If there were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nannies, etc. take one step forward.

If you were ever ashamed or embarrassed of your clothes, house, car, etc. take one step back.

If one or both of your parents were "white collar" professionals: doctors, lawyers, etc. take one step forward.

If you were raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etc., take one step back.

If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back.

If you studied the culture of your ancestors in elementary school, take one step forward.

If there were more than 50 books in your house when you grew up, take one step forward.

If you were taken to art galleries or plays by your parents, take one step forward.

If one of your parents was unemployed or laid off, not by choice, take one step back.

If you have health insurance take one step forward.

If you attended private school or summer camp, take one step forward.

If your family ever had to move because they could not afford the rent, take one step back.

If you were ever discouraged from academics or jobs because of race, class, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were encouraged to attend college by your parents, take one step forward.

If you were raised in a single parent household, take one step back.

If your family owned the house where you grew up, take one step forward.

If you saw members of your race, ethnic group, gender or sexual orientation portrayed on television in degrading roles, take one step back.

If you were ever offered a good job because of your association with a friend or family member, take one step forward.

If you were ever accused of cheating or lying because of your race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you ever inherited money or property, take one step forward.

If you had to rely primarily on public transportation, take one step back.

If you attended private school at any point in your life take one step forward.

If you were ever stopped or questioned by the police because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were ever afraid of violence because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were generally able to avoid places that were dangerous, take one step forward.

If you were ever uncomfortable about a joke related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation but felt unsafe to confront the situation, take one step back.

If you were ever the victim of violence related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If your parents did not grow up in the United States, take one step back.

If your parents attended college take one step forward.

If your parents told you that you could be anything you wanted to be, take one step forward.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Actually, there is considerable innovation over insulins. I don't think the poorest countries in the world use cadavaric human insulin any more.

Humalog is "Lispro" (substitution of a Lysine for a Proline). It's completely synthetic. The recent "basal insulins" (with extremely long half lives) have greatly improved management. Does Humalog cost "too much"? Is the Pope Catholic?

So why are they so cheap in Canada and other countries?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Actually, there is considerable innovation over insulins. I don't think the poorest countries in the world use cadavaric human insulin any more.

Humalog is "Lispro" (substitution of a Lysine for a Proline). It's completely synthetic. The recent "basal insulins" (with extremely long half lives) have greatly improved management. Does Humalog cost "too much"? Is the Pope Catholic?

So why are they so cheap in Canada and other countries?

Obvert, I don't know about insulin, but my wife is on an inhaler. I can literally pay hard cash for her inhaler and spend in the neighborhood of 80% less than going thru the insurance route available to us.

Another area of interest, after our copay is met for the year, our cost is 0 for all drugs after that point.

So my basic guess is they aren't comparing apples to apples.

I am also willing to bet that having a loser pays legal cost system impacts the price of drugs a lot.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert


Keyword: HISTORY as in ancient history.

Institutionalized Racism simply does not exist anymore.

Every Institution in the US has been providing special treatment to people of color and discriminating against non-people of color for somewhere around thirty years now in a misguided attempt to redress PAST discrimination.

There is no institution in the US today that could even dream of getting away with racist treatment of people of color.

That Institutionalized Racism exists in America today is a leftist fabrication.

Sooner or later you are going to have to step outside of that bubble you are living in.



Many of the people still alive today were alive, educated, and lived in a segregated and unequal society. Their lives and possible opportunities were altered regardless of subsequent changes in law. This is recent history. Many working age Americans were raised by parents who suffered these inequalities. That legacy and the legacy of poverty linked to this past are still in the present and relate to healthcare among many other things.

Here is an exercise our school community engaged in to understand more about what experiences are different for people of racially different backgrounds. It's called a privilege walk.

-----------------------------

If your ancestors were forced to come to the USA not by choice, take one step back.

If you were ever called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If there were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nannies, etc. take one step forward.

If you were ever ashamed or embarrassed of your clothes, house, car, etc. take one step back.

If one or both of your parents were "white collar" professionals: doctors, lawyers, etc. take one step forward.

If you were raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etc., take one step back.

If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back.

If you studied the culture of your ancestors in elementary school, take one step forward.

If there were more than 50 books in your house when you grew up, take one step forward.

If you were taken to art galleries or plays by your parents, take one step forward.

If one of your parents was unemployed or laid off, not by choice, take one step back.

If you have health insurance take one step forward.

If you attended private school or summer camp, take one step forward.

If your family ever had to move because they could not afford the rent, take one step back.

If you were ever discouraged from academics or jobs because of race, class, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were encouraged to attend college by your parents, take one step forward.

If you were raised in a single parent household, take one step back.

If your family owned the house where you grew up, take one step forward.

If you saw members of your race, ethnic group, gender or sexual orientation portrayed on television in degrading roles, take one step back.

If you were ever offered a good job because of your association with a friend or family member, take one step forward.

If you were ever accused of cheating or lying because of your race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you ever inherited money or property, take one step forward.

If you had to rely primarily on public transportation, take one step back.

If you attended private school at any point in your life take one step forward.

If you were ever stopped or questioned by the police because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were ever afraid of violence because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were generally able to avoid places that were dangerous, take one step forward.

If you were ever uncomfortable about a joke related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation but felt unsafe to confront the situation, take one step back.

If you were ever the victim of violence related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If your parents did not grow up in the United States, take one step back.

If your parents attended college take one step forward.

If your parents told you that you could be anything you wanted to be, take one step forward.

You do that in England?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Actually, there is considerable innovation over insulins. I don't think the poorest countries in the world use cadavaric human insulin any more.

Humalog is "Lispro" (substitution of a Lysine for a Proline). It's completely synthetic. The recent "basal insulins" (with extremely long half lives) have greatly improved management. Does Humalog cost "too much"? Is the Pope Catholic?

So why are they so cheap in Canada and other countries?

Obvert, I don't know about insulin, but my wife is on an inhaler. I can literally pay hard cash for her inhaler and spend in the neighborhood of 80% less than going thru the insurance route available to us.

Another area of interest, after our copay is met for the year, our cost is 0 for all drugs after that point.

Sounds like you have a good plan. Depending on the price of your copay, at least.

I only have looked at insulin because it's clear that in most countries it's not so expensive, and this, according to the Mayo clinic post, is mainly to due the monopoly on production rather than any medical cost need. So it's an example of how health care prices have been inflated unnecessarily in the US system, as reported by the FT article in question. In a time of crisis these accumulated costs seem to be putting hospitals in danger of not being able to continue operations.

That could be a real long term problem for some comunities.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert


Keyword: HISTORY as in ancient history.

Institutionalized Racism simply does not exist anymore.

Every Institution in the US has been providing special treatment to people of color and discriminating against non-people of color for somewhere around thirty years now in a misguided attempt to redress PAST discrimination.

There is no institution in the US today that could even dream of getting away with racist treatment of people of color.

That Institutionalized Racism exists in America today is a leftist fabrication.

Sooner or later you are going to have to step outside of that bubble you are living in.



Many of the people still alive today were alive, educated, and lived in a segregated and unequal society. Their lives and possible opportunities were altered regardless of subsequent changes in law. This is recent history. Many working age Americans were raised by parents who suffered these inequalities. That legacy and the legacy of poverty linked to this past are still in the present and relate to healthcare among many other things.

Here is an exercise our school community engaged in to understand more about what experiences are different for people of racially different backgrounds. It's called a privilege walk.

-----------------------------

If your ancestors were forced to come to the USA not by choice, take one step back.

If you were ever called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If there were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nannies, etc. take one step forward.

If you were ever ashamed or embarrassed of your clothes, house, car, etc. take one step back.

If one or both of your parents were "white collar" professionals: doctors, lawyers, etc. take one step forward.

If you were raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etc., take one step back.

If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back.

If you studied the culture of your ancestors in elementary school, take one step forward.

If there were more than 50 books in your house when you grew up, take one step forward.

If you were taken to art galleries or plays by your parents, take one step forward.

If one of your parents was unemployed or laid off, not by choice, take one step back.

If you have health insurance take one step forward.

If you attended private school or summer camp, take one step forward.

If your family ever had to move because they could not afford the rent, take one step back.

If you were ever discouraged from academics or jobs because of race, class, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were encouraged to attend college by your parents, take one step forward.

If you were raised in a single parent household, take one step back.

If your family owned the house where you grew up, take one step forward.

If you saw members of your race, ethnic group, gender or sexual orientation portrayed on television in degrading roles, take one step back.

If you were ever offered a good job because of your association with a friend or family member, take one step forward.

If you were ever accused of cheating or lying because of your race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you ever inherited money or property, take one step forward.

If you had to rely primarily on public transportation, take one step back.

If you attended private school at any point in your life take one step forward.

If you were ever stopped or questioned by the police because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were ever afraid of violence because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If you were generally able to avoid places that were dangerous, take one step forward.

If you were ever uncomfortable about a joke related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation but felt unsafe to confront the situation, take one step back.

If you were ever the victim of violence related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

If your parents did not grow up in the United States, take one step back.

If your parents attended college take one step forward.

If your parents told you that you could be anything you wanted to be, take one step forward.

You do that in England?

Yep. I work in an American International School.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

That could be a real long term problem for some comunities.

There is a tremendous amount of non-productive costs in medicine. Also the education & government sectors come to mind very quickly, too. And you are quite correct it posses a huge problem in all communities.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: obvert
. If you don't recognise the discriminatory history of the US in regard to black and brown Americans, the civil rights movement and the existing legacy of those institutions then it'll be hard to discuss this on the same plane.

Keyword: HISTORY as in ancient history.

Institutionalized Racism simply does not exist anymore.

Every Institution in the US has been providing special treatment to people of color and discriminating against non-people of color for somewhere around thirty years now in a misguided attempt to redress PAST discrimination.

There is no institution in the US today that could even dream of getting away with racist treatment of people of color.

That Institutionalized Racism exists in America today is a leftist fabrication.

Sooner or later you are going to have to step outside of that bubble you are living in.

Many of the people still alive today were alive, educated, and lived in a segregated society and unequal society. Their lives and possible opportunities were altered regardless of subsequent changes in law. This is recent history. Many working age Americans were raised by parents who suffered these inequalities. That legacy and the legacy of poverty linked to this past are still in the present and relate to healthcare among many other things.

Here is an exercise our school community engaged in to understand more about what experiences are different for people of racially different backgrounds. It's called a privilege walk.

-----------------------------

If your ancestors were forced to come to the USA not by choice, take one step back.

No step taken here.

If you were ever called names because of your race, class, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If there were people who worked for your family as servants, gardeners, nannies, etc. take one step forward.

No step here.

If you were ever ashamed or embarrassed of your clothes, house, car, etc. take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If one or both of your parents were "white collar" professionals: doctors, lawyers, etc. take one step forward.

No step taken here.

If you were raised in an area where there was prostitution, drug activity, etc., take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If you ever tried to change your appearance, mannerisms, or behavior to avoid being judged or ridiculed, take one step back.

Stepping back here. Every teenager on the planet qualifies for this one.

If you studied the culture of your ancestors in elementary school, take one step forward.

Half step forward here. No Arab culture studies in my schools.

If there were more than 50 books in your house when you grew up, take one step forward.

No step taken here. The only books in my house were the huge stacks I brought home each months from the mobile library.

If you were taken to art galleries or plays by your parents, take one step forward.

No step taken here.

If one of your parents was unemployed or laid off, not by choice, take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If you have health insurance take one step forward.

Stepping forward here.

If you attended private school or summer camp, take one step forward.

Stepping forward here as I guess Boy Scouts summer camp has to count.

If your family ever had to move because they could not afford the rent, take one step back.

No step taken here.

If you were ever discouraged from academics or jobs because of race, class, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If you were encouraged to attend college by your parents, take one step forward.

No step taken here.

If you were raised in a single parent household, take one step back.

No step taken here.

If your family owned the house where you grew up, take one step forward.

Half step here...family only 'owned' house after I spent 20 years paying off the mortgage.

If you saw members of your race, ethnic group, gender or sexual orientation portrayed on television in degrading roles, take one step back.

Stepping back here. Whites are constantly portrayed in degrading roles.

If you were ever offered a good job because of your association with a friend or family member, take one step forward.

Stepping forward here. personal recommendations are the only kind to have.

If you were ever accused of cheating or lying because of your race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If you ever inherited money or property, take one step forward.

Inherited the house I grew up in after paying my parents mortgage for 20 year so I guess I have to step forward.

If you had to rely primarily on public transportation, take one step back.

For how long? Stepping back and forward here. Extremely stupid question.

If you attended private school at any point in your life take one step forward.

No step taken here.

If you were ever stopped or questioned by the police because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

No step taken here.

If you were ever afraid of violence because of your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If you were generally able to avoid places that were dangerous, take one step forward.

No step taken here.

If you were ever uncomfortable about a joke related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation but felt unsafe to confront the situation, take one step back.

Another stupid question. Some people have sufficient backbone to fear nothing. Doesn't mean I have never been denigrated jokingly. No step taken here.

If you were ever the victim of violence related to your race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, take one step back.

Stepping back here.

If your parents did not grow up in the United States, take one step back.

No step taken here. Only my Lebonese immigrant maternal grand parents didn't grow up here.

If your parents attended college take one step forward.

No step taken here.

If your parents told you that you could be anything you wanted to be, take one step forward.

Stepping forward here. I had good parents thank you very much.

I'll be happy to take your test as I can and will answer in the same way that you expect many people of color to respond.

Many of the perceived prejudices evident in the questions apply just as strongly to poor white folks (I'm only half white, with the other half being camel jockey) as they do to oppressed people of color.

So, how did I do? Do I qualify as oppressed and discriminated against?