OT: Corona virus

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Randolph County, Georgia, is adjacent to Dougherty County, where that well-publicized (and oft-discussed here) funeral outbreak occurred in February. The cases have largely died down there - it's been holding steady at 19 deaths for many days or even weeks now. That is "old news" - it doesn't represent a rural/semi-rural outbreak that's just developing.

It is simply one of several counties in the US and about 5-6 IIRC in Georgia that have higher than 2% detected infection rates. I am showing how much this may have impacted certain communities, and on the positive side, how some of them might be close to herd immunity if the multiplication of undetected cases is as high as some scientists have stated recently.

So before you go out again assuming negativity, have a think and read more closely. No one is "calling out the South" and you don't have to defend it. The South, whatever that loosely defined area is nowadays, is diverse and different areas are being impacted differently by this pandemic, often because control has been taken by counties rather than states or federally mandated measures. Seeing that more clearly is interesting.

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ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Anyone talking about keeping the lockdown until there's a vaccine should be ignored, or, if they're a politician, voted out of office.

We just had a great four-day weekend in Korea. This son of a gun is all but beat. I think it's been four or five days with ZERO indigenous cases in the country. A few trickle in at the airport each day. The latest: S. Korea reports no new local virus cases ahead of eased social distancing

I took my family to the country's largest amusement park on Thursday, which was Buddha's Birthday. It was crowded, but everyone was wearing masks and we got a complimentary temperature check on the way in. The social distancing wouldn't have passed the Karen test (i.e. it wasn't too good). We spent the night at what they call a "pension" and then went to a nearby folk village the next day, which was also fairly crowded by the time we left. It was great to get out. We met the missus's sister's family, and my wife's sister is also a nurse practitioner. If they're cool with such outings, then I'm cool. The government is still afraid to open public schools, but private ones are good to go if they want. My daughter started pre-school two weeks ago. There are about eight kids in her class and they wear masks.

Here's a Korea recap:

- No lockdowns on private business except a 10-day closure of large nightclubs in Seoul.
- No "essential" business designations: if you want to be open, stay open, and sell whatever you want within your store.
- Public schools closed fairly early, and will probably reopen within 10 days.
- No ban on people coming from other countries; however, you'll be subject to testing (from some countries) and a 14-day quarantine (from everywhere) if you come here.
- People have been enjoying the great outdoors throughout, but people do wear masks.
- Subways have remained open.
- There was a national election on April 15 and people have to cast paper ballots in person here (they don't trust mail-in or electronic ballots, and believe it or not, they require ID to vote). Turnout was higher than the average legislative election and there were zero Covid cases attributed to voting.

Good luck and may your respective lockdowns end sooner rather than later.

Cheers,
CB

Korea is a model for us all to follow.

Some of what is happening is undoubtedly cultural, and may not be something other countries can do exactly in the same way. I do see here though more and more coming around to the idea that masks are important, that keeping away from others is useful, and that we're in this together.

Korea never had the number of cases the UK or US or many other countries now have, so there is just a lot more of it our there. There is a ways to go to get case numbers lower to be able to do things like open shared office, restaurants and pubs, unfortunately.

A friend working in the financial sector just let us know that she's been told her office will only be allowed to have 1/3 usual occupancy once they're open, at least for a while.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Anyone talking about keeping the lockdown until there's a vaccine should be ignored, or, if they're a politician, voted out of office.

We just had a great four-day weekend in Korea. This son of a gun is all but beat. I think it's been four or five days with ZERO indigenous cases in the country. A few trickle in at the airport each day. The latest: S. Korea reports no new local virus cases ahead of eased social distancing

I took my family to the country's largest amusement park on Thursday, which was Buddha's Birthday. It was crowded, but everyone was wearing masks and we got a complimentary temperature check on the way in. The social distancing wouldn't have passed the Karen test (i.e. it wasn't too good). We spent the night at what they call a "pension" and then went to a nearby folk village the next day, which was also fairly crowded by the time we left. It was great to get out. We met the missus's sister's family, and my wife's sister is also a nurse practitioner. If they're cool with such outings, then I'm cool. The government is still afraid to open public schools, but private ones are good to go if they want. My daughter started pre-school two weeks ago. There are about eight kids in her class and they wear masks.

Here's a Korea recap:

- No lockdowns on private business except a 10-day closure of large nightclubs in Seoul.
- No "essential" business designations: if you want to be open, stay open, and sell whatever you want within your store.
- Public schools closed fairly early, and will probably reopen within 10 days.
- No ban on people coming from other countries; however, you'll be subject to testing (from some countries) and a 14-day quarantine (from everywhere) if you come here.
- People have been enjoying the great outdoors throughout, but people do wear masks.
- Subways have remained open.
- There was a national election on April 15 and people have to cast paper ballots in person here (they don't trust mail-in or electronic ballots, and believe it or not, they require ID to vote). Turnout was higher than the average legislative election and there were zero Covid cases attributed to voting.

Good luck and may your respective lockdowns end sooner rather than later.

Cheers,
CB

Wow, that is damned impressive. Happy Buddha's birfday!

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While the threats to global media freedom are real and concerning in their own right, their impact on the state of democracy is what makes them truly dangerous.


https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom ... ard-spiral

The fundamental right to seek and disseminate information through an independent press is under attack, and part of the assault has come from an unexpected source. Elected leaders in many democracies, who should be press freedom’s staunchest defenders, have made explicit attempts to silence critical media voices and strengthen outlets that serve up favorable coverage. The trend is linked to a global decline in democracy itself: The erosion of press freedom is both a symptom of and a contributor to the breakdown of other democratic institutions and principles, a fact that makes it especially alarming.

According to Freedom House’s Freedom in the World data, media freedom has been deteriorating around the world over the past decade, with new forms of repression taking hold in open societies and authoritarian states alike. The trend is most acute in Europe, previously a bastion of well-established freedoms, and in Eurasia and the Middle East, where many of the world’s worst dictatorships are concentrated. If democratic powers cease to support media independence at home and impose no consequences for its restriction abroad, the free press corps could be in danger of virtual extinction.

[Canoerebel]

The Freedom of the Press is probably universally respected and cherished, at least among free people. But the Press has become uber-powerful, partly because of its constitutional protections, and has morphed into and entity that has abused its power for many years. It has therefore made many enemies, who wish to hold it accountable for it's abuses. The Press repeatedly and self-righteously declares itself threatened and under attack, but it brought it on itself. Some of the attacks are not justified or are too extreme, of course, but many are people responding in good faith to the perceived abuses. With great power comes great responsibility. Previously, in this thread, there were lengthy discussions of abuses and biases with citations given. Also, many examples of bias have been given here. The notion that there is bias may be distasteful to you but its exists.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Freedom of the Press is probably universally respected and cherished. At the same time, the Press is uber-powerful and has abused its power for many years. It has therefore made many enemies, who wish to hold it accountable for it's abuses. The Press repeatedly and self-righteously declares itself threatened and under attack, but it brought it on itself. Some of the attacks are not justified or are too extreme, of course, but many are people responding in good faith to the perceived abuses. With great power comes great responsibility.

It is worth noting that the legal mechanisms used by the press for reporting (FoI etc) are intended to be used by everyone.

An attack on the press is an attack on transparency. Granted that information can be used in a partisan manner once it is in the public sphere, but increased transparency is NEVER a bad thing in government.

[RangerJoe]

Perception is reality. What is perceived to be real, is real.

When supposed neutral journalists are crying because of election results, they are not neutral.

When their reports are slanted, when there is not a good investigative side that questions what certain people/organizations state, when records are falsified and reported as fact, when the information that is obtained does not meet their personal beliefs the message and the messengers are attack, there is a problem. When people keep seeing it, they learn to distrust the medium that those things ccme from.

It is like an engineer doing a science show as an expert. While there s some science background, an engineer is not a scientist.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Freedom of the Press is probably universally respected and cherished.

This was somehow absent from your previous opinions. As shown in the linked document I posted, however, it is not "universally respected and cherished." You use absolute terms again, but there are obviously many who do not respect and cherish a free press if it gets in the way of their own goals, viewpoints or ideals. We've seen the effects of this perhaps most explicitly in China, Russia (and previous Soviet "journalism") and other government controls of free press over the years.

At the same time, the Press is uber-powerful and has abused its power for many years.

"Abused." Hmmmmm. Can you expound on that and give some objective data to support? What constitutes "abuse" and how do you measure that?

It has therefore made many enemies, who wish to hold it accountable for it's abuses.

How? "Hold it accountable?" You speak in the singular as if you're again speaking of one entity, an your statement is quite ominous. Would you like more censorship?

The Press repeatedly and self-righteously declares itself threatened and under attack, but it brought it on itself. Some of the attacks are not justified or are too extreme, of course, but many are people responding in good faith to the perceived abuses. With great power comes great responsibility.

"Good faith" is used again here. What is that for you?

"It" is used again as if journalism is one entity. Is Breitbart equally culpable for these "abuses" as is the NY Times, or CNN, or Fox, or YahooNews? "It" is not one single minded or opinioned entity. "It" is as diverse as the people who read and consume it.

Your view is simply one of many, and you as as right and as wrong as others out there, those consumers of information looking into all of these sources. We as a collective populace create journalism through our readership and viewership.

[Canoerebel]

We have strongly different views that won't be reconciled here. Rather than clogging the thread, I'll move on (or we can discuss via PM).

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Perception is reality. What is perceived to be real, is real.

Really? Whose perception?

Is there no objectivity at all? Are you discounting the scientific method as well as journalism?

"Perceived to be real" by who? Everyone? Or you? Or a scientist? Or a priest? Or a politician?

When supposed neutral journalists are crying because of election results, they are not neutral.

When their reports are slanted, when there is not a good investigative side that questions what certain people/organizations state, when records are falsified and reported as fact, when the information that is obtained does not meet their personal beliefs the message and the messengers are attack, there is a problem. When people keep seeing it, they learn to distrust the medium that those things ccme from.

I would argue some of your statements are correct, but you supply no individual evidence and this could apply to journalism that is from any end of the opinion or political spectrum.

So what you're saying is that we need more objective information, evidence and transparency? Is that right?

This seems to contradict your initial statement about perception.

It is like an engineer doing a science show as an expert. While there s some science background, an engineer is not a scientist.

Interesting that you bring in science here. An engineer does need to know some science, actually. But what kind of engineer? Electrical, software, industrial physical?

Any of those could qualify as an expert for different aspects of science related to their fields. Physics comes to mind immediately. Electromagnetism. Geology. I could go on ...

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

We have strongly different views that won't be reconciled here. Rather than clogging the thread, I'll move on (or we can discuss via PM).

I'd rather discuss in the open, in public, thanks.

So I guess based on your statements above you won't be using any sources of journalism since journalism "has abused it's power for so many years?"

Where will you find information then?

[Canoerebel]

I'm moving on. [:'(]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: obvert

While the threats to global media freedom are real and concerning in their own right, their impact on the state of democracy is what makes them truly dangerous.


https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom ... ard-spiral

The fundamental right to seek and disseminate information through an independent press is under attack, and part of the assault has come from an unexpected source. Elected leaders in many democracies, who should be press freedom’s staunchest defenders, have made explicit attempts to silence critical media voices and strengthen outlets that serve up favorable coverage. The trend is linked to a global decline in democracy itself: The erosion of press freedom is both a symptom of and a contributor to the breakdown of other democratic institutions and principles, a fact that makes it especially alarming.

According to Freedom House’s Freedom in the World data, media freedom has been deteriorating around the world over the past decade, with new forms of repression taking hold in open societies and authoritarian states alike. The trend is most acute in Europe, previously a bastion of well-established freedoms, and in Eurasia and the Middle East, where many of the world’s worst dictatorships are concentrated. If democratic powers cease to support media independence at home and impose no consequences for its restriction abroad, the free press corps could be in danger of virtual extinction.

It's not just politicians, but those in media who fancy themselves politicians even if only from the sidelines.

Here is an article about the NY Times fall from journalism. I had not heard of the controversy which headlines the article, but as the article points out it's merely one example.

That problem is that there has ceased to be the one-time division between “church” (the editorial page that is filled with opinion), and “state”, the news pages that are supposed to be filled with facts -- just the facts. Now there is no difference at all between the two, and the wall separating opinion from fact-filled-journalism has been deliberately razed to the ground.

In fact, this has been a problem at the Times that in its own slow-motion fashion has been coming for some time. Now, it is here as a full-blown daily reality.

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/jeffrey-lord/2020/05/02/times-vs-sean-hannity-showcases-papers-spectacular-fall

[Canoerebel]

Netherlands reported 26 deaths today, the lowest since March 19.

Belgium held steady at around 80, down greatly from its peak.

Last week, the US and a many states (including Georgia) had a "good weekend" followed by a sharp uptick on Monday or Tuesday. Hopefully that doesn't repeat this weak, as the US and many of those same states had good reports this weekend, too.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Anyone talking about keeping the lockdown until there's a vaccine should be ignored, or, if they're a politician, voted out of office.

We just had a great four-day weekend in Korea. This son of a gun is all but beat. I think it's been four or five days with ZERO indigenous cases in the country. A few trickle in at the airport each day. The latest: S. Korea reports no new local virus cases ahead of eased social distancing

I took my family to the country's largest amusement park on Thursday, which was Buddha's Birthday. It was crowded, but everyone was wearing masks and we got a complimentary temperature check on the way in. The social distancing wouldn't have passed the Karen test (i.e. it wasn't too good). We spent the night at what they call a "pension" and then went to a nearby folk village the next day, which was also fairly crowded by the time we left. It was great to get out. We met the missus's sister's family, and my wife's sister is also a nurse practitioner. If they're cool with such outings, then I'm cool. The government is still afraid to open public schools, but private ones are good to go if they want. My daughter started pre-school two weeks ago. There are about eight kids in her class and they wear masks.

Here's a Korea recap:

- No lockdowns on private business except a 10-day closure of large nightclubs in Seoul.
- No "essential" business designations: if you want to be open, stay open, and sell whatever you want within your store.
- Public schools closed fairly early, and will probably reopen within 10 days.
- No ban on people coming from other countries; however, you'll be subject to testing (from some countries) and a 14-day quarantine (from everywhere) if you come here.
- People have been enjoying the great outdoors throughout, but people do wear masks.
- Subways have remained open.
- There was a national election on April 15 and people have to cast paper ballots in person here (they don't trust mail-in or electronic ballots, and believe it or not, they require ID to vote). Turnout was higher than the average legislative election and there were zero Covid cases attributed to voting.

Good luck and may your respective lockdowns end sooner rather than later.

Cheers,
CB

Many thanks for your post, CaptBeefheart. It makes me optimistic for us and is helpful in setting expectations.

[MakeeLearn]

Chinese investors are waiting to snap up Australian property at cheap prices once travel restrictions are lifted
3 May 2020 |

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ifted.html



"Chinese property investors are lying in wait to snap up cheap real estate deals in Australia when coronavirus travel restrictions are lifted.

Chinese real estate firm Juwai IQI said they expected foreign buyers to Australia's capital city markets where prices are expected to stagnate or fall."

[MakeeLearn]

City ends face-mask rule for shoppers after store employees are threatened
May 2, 2020


https://www.yahoo.com/news/city-ends-fa ... 22754.html



"The mayor of an Oklahoma city amended an emergency declaration requiring customers to wear face masks while inside businesses after store employees were threatened with violence.

Stillwater Mayor Will Joyce announced the change Friday afternoon, less than 24 hours after the declaration took effect."

[MakeeLearn]

Correct Coronavirus NUMBERS will never be known and will be "area fire". Results may give a better picture than numbers.
After a surge in Annual Death Averages the number may drop due to people who died months earlier due to CoVid19.

This repost of a letter written to CDC from

Kenneth Stoller
International Hyperbaric Medical Association

show how "US data on influenza deaths are false and misleading."


https://aspe.hhs.gov/cdc-%E2%80%94-infl ... ection-rfc

[Cap Mandrake]

DAN BLATHER, editor-in-chief of CBS News was FIRED for making up a story on Bush 43 because he had a grudge against Bush 41 (among other things).

He was undone because the fake document used a print font not even invented when the letter was supposed to be written. [:D][:D] Then, when he is ordered to retract he goes on air and says "CBS News is unable to confirm the accuracy of this letter" [:D]

NBC TIMED the release of a 10 year old audio tape that EVERYBODY at NBC News knew about to harm Trump. The story was true but the timing was purely political.

NBC shelved stories on Weinstein because he was a Clinton donor.

CNN anchors literally cried on air when Trump won. [:D][:D]

CNN literally conspired with the Obama DNI to give a briefing to Trump on the Pee Dossier so they could run with the story (which everyone knew was Russian gossip)

MSNBC??? What can you say? [:D][:D]

The Editor of the NYT wrote an opinion piece to HIS OWN STAFF after 2106 asking them to be more "balanced". [:D] Like he asleep the whole time?

BTW, the Washington Press Corps KNEW that JFK had a full-time procurer of young females

[witpqs]

During the 2012 presidential election season a major network ran a documentary on an 1800's massacre carried out by... Mormons. Relevant to the 2012 election? It seems they thought so.