OT: Corona virus

[Lovejoy]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

As a news organisation at least I'd suggest the BBC is pretty much as down the middle as you are going to get. That side of things is separate from it's role as a 'content creator' in which it has no explicit obligation to be 'impartial'. That separation is not just an airy-fairy ideal - it is a fundamentally expressed in the Royal Charter under which it operates.

I agree with this, and that the Labour Party and the Conservative Party both complain that it's biased against them. I think they don't like the BBC's tendency to report inconvenient facts that the parties would prefer to keep quiet.[;)]

[obvert]

You're commenting a political statement by one political officer vs another. I'm not going there, nor should you.

That it's being reported is completely fair. How else would you have known and been able to be so vehemently denounce it?

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I assume you're kidding here. If not, we operate on such different planes that we can't have fruitful conversations about this. If you think an allegation that a governor is willing to trade lives for profit....really?

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I read the whole thing. I've also read other articles and understand the point Abbott (and most everybody else) has been making. Yes, there are issues with easing countermeasures. We think they are manageable and we think it's worth doing. I have no issue with that position given the complexities of the situation.

The only issue I have is with how his opponent characterized the governor. You didn't denounce that, but I'm pretty sure you don't find it acceptable.

Without the context of the behind the scenes conversation made public, it's hard to understand the point the opponent is making. When you see it and have read the whole thing, it makes much more sense.

Why denounce something that is obviously a targeted political statement? That happens on both sides as you point out. We don't have to look far to see that.

The important point is to see both sides, and that is what journalism did in this case by clearly identifying parties, giving context, and showing each position. If this was a really smart and biased take on this story they would have left out the opponent's comment. That just gives anyone on the other side a way to divert from the actual situation to focus on the so-called "loathsome" critique.

[Lowpe]

On the hourly radio update, can't even tell you which service (abc, cbs, nbc or fox), they played a quote from Gov Cuomo who said that new infections are primarily coming from the people in NY that are in lockdown and that NY is very surprised by this.

I will look for some links, but anybody else hear it?

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

As a news organisation at least I'd suggest the BBC is pretty much as down the middle as you are going to get. That side of things is separate from it's role as a 'content creator' in which it has no explicit obligation to be 'impartial'. That separation is not just an airy-fairy ideal - it is a fundamentally expressed in the Royal Charter under which it operates.

I agree with this, and that the Labour Party and the Conservative Party both complain that it's biased against them. I think they don't like the BBC's tendency to report inconvenient facts that the parties would prefer to keep quiet.[;)]

Dr Who is obviously sexist. Anti-robot too[;)]

It does seem to me as an outsider that the BBC has been pro-remain but that weather sea report thingy is soporifically neutral

[MakeeLearn]

Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying homeWed, May 6 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov- ... -home.html


"Early look at data from 100 New York hospitals shows that 66% of new admissions related to the virus are people who were at home, Cuomo said. "

"He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic. "

"Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.

The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing.

It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%."

[Canoerebel]

My comment was in reply to a post by Sammy and was pertinent and appropriate to the discussion.

ORIGINAL: obvert

You're commenting a political statement by one political officer vs another. I'm not going there, nor should you.

That it's being reported is completely fair. How else would you have known and been able to be so vehemently denounce it?

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I assume you're kidding here. If not, we operate on such different planes that we can't have fruitful conversations about this. If you think an allegation that a governor is willing to trade lives for profit....really?

ORIGINAL: obvert




Without the context of the behind the scenes conversation made public, it's hard to understand the point the opponent is making. When you see it and have read the whole thing, it makes much more sense.

Why denounce something that is obviously a targeted political statement? That happens on both sides as you point out. We don't have to look far to see that.

The important point is to see both sides, and that is what journalism did in this case by clearly identifying parties, giving context, and showing each position. If this was a really smart and biased take on this story they would have left out the opponent's comment. That just gives anyone on the other side a way to divert from the actual situation to focus on the so-called "loathsome" critique.

[Canoerebel]

Wow, that's something.

But it doesn't seem like people are staying at home, judging from the photos of sunbathers in New York parks over the weekend.

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying homeWed, May 6 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov- ... -home.html


"Early look at data from 100 New York hospitals shows that 66% of new admissions related to the virus are people who were at home, Cuomo said. "

"He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic. "

"Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.

The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing.

It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%."

[MakeeLearn]

Virus Survey Finds Most Patients Retired or Unemployed: Live Updates

Hospitals in New York State reported that only 17 percent of recently admitted patients were working, Governor Cuomo said.
May 6 2020


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/nyre ... nk-bbb1a5b


"New York State has been shut down for six weeks. Social distancing has become the norm. Face masks are everywhere.

And yet more than 20,000 people a week in the state are still testing positive for the coronavirus. In the past week, more than 5,000 virus patients entered hospitals. Who are they?

Officials have surveyed hospitals to find out, and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said that he was surprised by the results he was reporting on Wednesday.

More than four in five patients were retired or unemployed. Only 17 percent were working.

“We were thinking that maybe we were going to find a higher percentage of essential employees who were getting sick because they were going to work, that these may be nurses, doctors, transit workers,” Mr. Cuomo said. “That’s not the case.”"

[Canoerebel]

From the New York Times, a few days ago.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying homeWed, May 6 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov- ... -home.html


"Early look at data from 100 New York hospitals shows that 66% of new admissions related to the virus are people who were at home, Cuomo said. "

"He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic. "

"Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.

The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing.

It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%."

Interesting. Small n.

Since New York is 28% Latino and 24% African American it makes sense they comprise nearly half of cases.

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




Since New York is 28% Latino and 24% African American it makes sense they comprise nearly half of cases.

WHOA!!!... Slow down there Hoss, don't get caught up in the facts! [:)]

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: obvert



The important point is to see both sides

Correction: The important point is the see the correct side.

You have to understand both sides to see where they're coming from. Right or wrong side, understanding both sides is more important than the correct side. Sometimes there isn't a correct side... you ever have kids...?

[MakeeLearn]

At least 100 food processing employees have the coronavirus
May 06, 2020


https://www.modbee.com/news/article242543401.html


"More than 100 employees have tested positive for the coronavirus at two food-processing plants in Tulare County, health officials said.

At least 107 employees at two Ruiz Foods facilities in Dinuba and Tulare have tested positive for the virus, the Visalia Times Delta reported Tuesday.

The frozen Mexican food company, known for its El Monterey brand, last week reported 43 positive cases between the two buildings, prompting company officials to stop production lines Monday at the Dinuba facility and increase testing of its employees."

[MakeeLearn]

Trump says will announce new members of coronavirus task force by Monday
May 06, 2020

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

"WASHINGTON, May 6 (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Wednesday his coronavirus task force would shift its focus to reviving U.S. business and social life, prompting the top Democrat in Congress to warn that ignoring science and the need for more testing would put Americans at risk.

In a series of tweets on Wednesday, Trump said that because of its success, "the Task Force will continue on indefinitely with its focus on SAFETY & OPENING UP OUR COUNTRY AGAIN. We may add or subtract people to it, as appropriate."

He added: "The Task Force will also be very focused on Vaccines & Therapeutics.""

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

At least 100 food processing employees have the coronavirus
May 06, 2020


https://www.modbee.com/news/article242543401.html


"More than 100 employees have tested positive for the coronavirus at two food-processing plants in Tulare County, health officials said.

At least 107 employees at two Ruiz Foods facilities in Dinuba and Tulare have tested positive for the virus, the Visalia Times Delta reported Tuesday.

The frozen Mexican food company, known for its El Monterey brand, last week reported 43 positive cases between the two buildings, prompting company officials to stop production lines Monday at the Dinuba facility and increase testing of its employees."

If you've ever been to a processing plant this news is mind boggling.

Think about it - they take more precautions than most businesses.. they're in masks to begin with, sometimes shields and clothing over clothing.

You mean to tell me when 1 of their 3 shifts SOLE job is to clean the place head to toe, they're going to have more cases there than say an Amazon warehouse where they don't have health/cleanliness standards like a packing plant does? Packing plants find hundreds of cases while Amazon warehouses maybe find a couple? Please.

One of the plants the majority of the workers were asymptomatic..

Ya'll realize boxed beef has DOUBLED since March. America needs to wake up to what is going on here..

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: HansBolter





Putting the BBC in the middle of the road requires taking everything else on the site with a grain of salt.

Nah, it is a perspective rating.

One of the things I find interesting in this thread are the similarities between some of the commentary on the media seen here and that which I've seen over the last years from Corbyn/Labour supporters in the UK. The latter are convinced that the 'MSM' (television/radio/print journalism) is institutionally right-wing and that it has been (now was) conspiring to frustrate and prevent any sort of success from Corbyn's Labour. The BBC is seen by them as one of the worst offenders - a wolf in sheep's clothing.

At the same time for the last few years the Conservative party has been convinced that the BBC has been pushing a 'soft left' anti-Brexit agenda.

For me if they are managing to upset both sides of the argument they must be doing something right!

As a news organisation at least I'd suggest the BBC is pretty much as down the middle as you are going to get. That side of things is separate from it's role as a 'content creator' in which it has no explicit obligation to be 'impartial'. That separation is not just an airy-fairy ideal - it is a fundamentally expressed in the Royal Charter under which it operates.

There is evidence in support of a BBC bias in favour of the Conservative party

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 3117695736
www.cresse.info/uploadfiles/2019_ps15_pa4.pdf

On top of that, you've also got stuff like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50374630

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




Since New York is 28% Latino and 24% African American it makes sense they comprise nearly half of cases.

WHOA!!!... Slow down there Hoss, don't get caught up in the facts! [:)]

It's due to slavery.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing



On top of that, you've also got stuff like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50374630

That seems pretty harmless. Were there even words spoken? [:)]

I guess his hair looked better.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: obvert



The important point is to see both sides

Correction: The important point is the see the correct side.

You have to understand both sides to see where they're coming from. Right or wrong side, understanding both sides is more important than the correct side. Sometimes there isn't a correct side... you ever have kids...?

You misunderstood my point.

Once you have SEEN both sides what is IMPORTANT is discerning which one is CORRECT, ie....seeing the correct side.

There is ALWAYS a correct side (yes, I am one of those crazies who believes in an absolute reality).

Often we just can't see through the grey fog to discern it.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




Nah, it is a perspective rating.

One of the things I find interesting in this thread are the similarities between some of the commentary on the media seen here and that which I've seen over the last years from Corbyn/Labour supporters in the UK. The latter are convinced that the 'MSM' (television/radio/print journalism) is institutionally right-wing and that it has been (now was) conspiring to frustrate and prevent any sort of success from Corbyn's Labour. The BBC is seen by them as one of the worst offenders - a wolf in sheep's clothing.

At the same time for the last few years the Conservative party has been convinced that the BBC has been pushing a 'soft left' anti-Brexit agenda.

For me if they are managing to upset both sides of the argument they must be doing something right!

As a news organisation at least I'd suggest the BBC is pretty much as down the middle as you are going to get. That side of things is separate from it's role as a 'content creator' in which it has no explicit obligation to be 'impartial'. That separation is not just an airy-fairy ideal - it is a fundamentally expressed in the Royal Charter under which it operates.

There is evidence in support of a BBC bias in favour of the Conservative party

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 3117695736
www.cresse.info/uploadfiles/2019_ps15_pa4.pdf

On top of that, you've also got stuff like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50374630

Regarding that journal article. I'd argue that it certainly doesn't say that there was a BBC bias in favour of the Conservative Party. For a start at that time of the campaign, the Conservative PM and Chancellor were both explicitly in favour of remaining in the EU. The Home Secretary was 'submarining' but as far as anyone could pin her down was softly pro-remain. The Health Secretary was pro-remain at the time. The only high profile 'pro-Brexit' member of the cabinet I can think of was Gove. Boris was just an MP at that point (and even he at the time was equivocal on the issue until quite late on when he decided which way he thought the wind was blowing).

So if there was any 'pro-Brexit' bias it was against the Conservative Government of the time.

I'm not even sure that the article says that there was a pro-Brexit bias - more that the coverage was impartial but that it did not do enough to mitigate against the fact that the Brexit campaign was far more effective in driving the narrative. I think it is debatable whether it is the responsibility of the media to correct the inadequacies of the Remain campaign.

FWIW I was and remain someone who believe we should have stayed in the EU.

All I'll say about the second article is that once you have a 'conspiracy narrative' it is easy to find examples to fit the narrative if you look hard enough.

This is well off-topic - happy to continue by PM.